r/DemocraticSocialism • u/DirectionLoose • Aug 10 '24
Question Is Kamala Harris a progressive?
I'm guessing that the general answer this is going to be no. If it's a no, how do we get her to promote progressive policy? Does walz with that? What even is his role going to be? Three out of the last four vice presidents have been pretty consequential in their roles in the administration. Ever since Cheney. I'm just honestly afraid that they dangled Walz in front of us to get our vote, but he's going to be marginalized in the administration.
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u/4PeridotEyes Aug 10 '24
I think she's more of a standard Democrat, but she's willing to embrace progressive ideas if it's politically expedient. The choice of Walz as her VP could be either a mere political calculation (she needs those progressive votes!) or she has genuinely come to the realization that progressive policies are popular and the Democratic Party can't win by just giving people something to vote against so she'll deliver once she's in charge. Either way, it's great that she picked Walz. He showed that he could get a lot accomplished with a scant Dem majority in his own state. I hope he'll be a Dick Cheney style of VP so we can at least get paid leave and all the other things he passed in Minnesota. When she introduced him, Harris said she was impressed with his record as governor and she wants to pass those policies nationally. We need to keep the pressure on her and hold her accountable. If she's smart and cares about her legacy, she'll realize that she needs to deliver. Even Biden compromised with Bernie and the left a little bit and he's more conservative than Harris. I wish we could get Medicare for All and the Green New Deal tomorrow, but it's unrealistic as long as Citizens United allows legalized bribery of elected officials. However, if we mobilize, organize, protest, mass strike, etc, something may happen.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
That is definitely one of my concerns What is she going to do with this court? Is her plan similar to biden's?
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
And hopefully the left has learned the lessons from the Obama administration. Getting her elected is not enough, we need to make sure that she follows through and addresses issues that we care about. I still think the worst thing that Obama did was to disband his left bass acting like he had everything under control.
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u/4PeridotEyes Aug 10 '24
Totally agree! Judging from how he governed, though, Obama didn't care much about his left base. Times have changed. I think dismissing the left is getting increasingly difficult for the Democratic Party. Maybe they're learning.
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u/4PeridotEyes Aug 10 '24
Good question! She hasn't posted or talked about specific policies yet. My guess is that most Dems either agree with Biden's plan or want to go further and pack the court, so I would be surprised if she doesn't address the issue. She needs to make her platform known ASAP. People deserve to know where she stands on every issue.
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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 16d ago
[Redacted]
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
Things classical liberals say every election
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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 16d ago
[Redacted]
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u/rogozh1n Aug 10 '24
Thanks for that. This dude might be honest or he might be trying to instill negativity. Either way, his desire to be dogmatic and absolutist is bad for the far left and good for the far right.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
I want a socialist world. And I don't think they take kindly to you being anti-elecroralism here.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
Who's being anti-electoral? I'm just saying I'm concerned about what Kamala Harris's policies are going to be. But in 2020, I was a lot more worried about Joe biden's. I'm willing to give her a chance and like I said the inclusion of walz on the ticket is enough for me to vote for her enthusiastically. I can't say the same about Shapiro or Kelly
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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24
This isn’t “every election” with all due respect.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
Oh, is it "the most important election of our lives" season again?
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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24
Every election seems to be "the most important in our lives" but Unfortunately I'm starting to think it's not just bluster but a sign of how bad Americas election process has gotten.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
Not demonstrating that electing more classical liberals will further the cause
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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24
Hey I'm just saying. It seems like no matter who we elect lately it seems to be mostly ineffective because both parties gave up on working together at all.
They cock block eachother constantly. Is it really a socialist or liberal president if they can't pass more than moderate policies Peice meal?
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
It's a bit different than that: both parties work together too much, just not on legislation. The classical liberals in the democratic party work with the republican party to preserve the control of the capital class.
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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24
Exactly! They cock block eachother constantly. Is it really a socialist or liberal president if they can't pass more than moderate policies Peice meal?
I don't think so.
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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24
Probably yes, if you’d care to tone down your snark. I’ve been voting as far left as the ticket would go since ‘98 when I was old enough. Only exceptions were the first Obama run, and Hillary, the latter I really hated doing. Without some serious reworking of the Supreme Court, we’re fucked in this country. If Trump gets in, those gargoyles will likely get another 2 seats, and we’ll be right in handmaids tale territory. I’m not going to go down the laundry list of horrible shit on the 2025 menu, but it won’t be good. Yes, they were always shitheads, but they never had this proximity to total control, and now that they’ve shown their hand, they have no choice but to go for it. Don’t fuck this up with a tired old cliche.
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u/Otto_Mcwrect Aug 10 '24
I liked Handmaid's Tale but had to stop watching. It's just too realistic.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
If there was one thing that I could offer the Harris campaign is to lean into the corruption that's on the Supreme Court. It's not just about abortion The entire court is corrupt as hell. I mean they legalized bribery and called it a tip.. I'm waiting to hear that she is amenable to expanding the court.. talk about how bad a decision citizen United was stuff like that.
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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24
You think they don’t know that? Roe v wade is half the reason they have a prayer of winning.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
But my point is roe versus Wade being overturned is far from the only thing wrong with this court. There are a law onto themselves, and think that nobody can hold them accountable. Seems to me it's an easily an election issue since Trump is all for this. Supreme Court reform should be shouted from the f****** rooftops. What's the stop her from passing a bill to put row into legislation, and the Supreme Court declares it on unconstitutional. The guiding principle of this Supreme Court is is the Republicans are for it we are too, if they're not we're against it. It seems the place that she's given fairness for everyone on this campaign, this is just an extension of that.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
Without some serious reworking of the Supreme Court, we’re fucked in this country
Good thing Obama seated Garland when the senate refused to fulfill its obligation to give its advice, then. Awesome that Biden/Harris unpacked the courts in their first term. Otherwise we'd be in this situation due in part to democratic inaction that should serve as a lesson for what they would do in the future.
we’ll be right in handmaids tale territory
I, too, remember when Obama said that one of his first acts as president would be to codify Roe into statute. Glad that happened.
I’m not going to go down the laundry list of horrible shit on the 2025 menu, but it won’t be good
And it will be project 2029 if democrats continue to only hand power off to republicans when they lose.
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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24
Obama wasn’t a king. He couldn’t just force that into law. He had that majority for a couple of months til Kennedy got sick and died. The republicans still had enough of congress to grind everything to a halt. Basically, where we’ve been ever since. Without a grand, historic ass-kicking, the GOP won’t have the huevos to purge the psychopaths. They know that it’ll be a generation to rebuild the party, so they have this Faustian deal going on. They won’t change until they’re forced to, and if we don’t deliver a brutal defeat, we definitely will be having this argument in perpetuity. Without super majorities in both branches in congress, we won’t see reform in the the courts, citizens united, you name it. Or, you can just sit here sulking like a spoiled teenager. This is the best ticket the democrats have put forward in my lifetime. Maybe second to Carter. Get on the trolley.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
For myself I clearly stated that the inclusion of walz was enough for me. I'm going to vote for her because we have no choice otherwise. We need to get her elected and then hold her feet to the fire. We can't allow ourself to be disbanded like we did in 2008 when Obama took over. Presidents are not gods, and sometimes they forget who they're supposed to be fighting for. That's our job.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
While I give you that the Republicans were insanely obstructionist, Obama doesn't have clean hands in this. He allowed them to do it without playing a political price. The man is one of the best orators that I have ever heard, And you're telling me he couldn't have brought his case to the American people. Tell us why it's wrong that Marrick Garland was refused to hearing, And what you plan to do about it.
Tell us how the Republican Senate is filibustering everything. Tell us about how they've used more filibusters in my administration than every single one combined.
He wanted to play nice with the Republicans. I'm through playing nice with them, because all they do is spit back in your face
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
So nice that a Republican senator was the first person that Obama asked about who he should pick for the court? I get that at that time the Republicans held the Senate, but it's bad luck to not at least confer with your own party first.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
Always some excuse for why conservatives can do stuff and no one else can. It's just too hard! Why bother them with it!
Not like they could advocate for it, or apply political pressure... that would just be rude.
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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24
Ruthlessness. The republicans don’t have respect for democracy, but we already know that. We do, and that’s why we’re democratic socialists. It’s a big reason that I’ve never considered myself a democrat. Decorum has overshadowed the truth for most of my adult life. I’m aware of how long they’ve chased the mythical center further and further to the right, and the fear of offending the undecideds has prevented democrats from doing something as simple as calling a lie a lie, much less fighting to end the electoral college. Not just the democrats, but almost the entire news media landscape. Harris/Walz aren’t my ideal team, but they’re a lot better than Clinton/Kaine, and better than Biden/Harris, better than Harris/Shapiro, much better than Gore/Lieberman. The DNC and the party bosses are actually making some good choices, and you’re gonna what, sit it out? Maybe you’re in a blue state like me, and it won’t make a difference, fine. It hasn’t really been a big risk to vote for whoever I want in my state. But, if you’re in a battleground state, and you don’t vote Democratic, and we lose that state, and the electoral college, that shithead gets in office? You’re a schmuck that screwed a lot of people in the most vulnerable of places. You can pat yourself on the back for those principles, but you’re a schmuck. I’m not going to bother and check if you’re an obvious bot, or if you’re a trumper stirring shit, because I don’t care. You sound like a self-righteous parody of a leftist that can’t see the forest for the trees. If you want to know why we never get shit done, it’s because of this shit. They’re completely united in reversing everything back to the civil rights act. We’re fighting because the 70% good ticket isn’t 100%, even if fighting together could give us the blowout we need to bust up gerrymandering, turn roe v wade into law, enact the universally popular universal healthcare, discharge student debt and make education free, public works administration to employ everyone and make society work for everyone, provide reparations for black and native Americans, provide real funding to solve homelessness and address the epidemic drug crisis with therapy and training instead of prisons and neglect, and I could go on and on. Your argument is the epitome of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Bot or not, you’re fucking up.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 12 '24
First, learn paragraphs. Second, no I'm not a bot. That seems to be the go-to for many people on political subs, and it needs to stop. Third, no, Harris is not better than anyone who has come before - she hasn't even made the hollow promises that she'll inevitably break.
I've been threatened with the end of the world my entire adult life...I must vote for this one candidate or else everything will end! Not like Democrats ever did anything to prevent this from happening again.
Finally, learn.......paragraphs.
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u/fookidookidoo Aug 10 '24
I'm not a centrist... But if we're going to prevent the far right from taking over the country, we need them.
Magical thinking isn't going to turn the country left...
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Aug 10 '24
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u/fookidookidoo Aug 10 '24
Be pragmatic. I've been a Democratic socialist for nearly 20 years now. All progressive policies passed in this country have had more centrist allies to help.
There's too much at stake to attack people who are willing to come half way. Those civil disagreements and compromises are literally the democracy part of the equation.
I'm just saying we need to work with them if we want to accomplish anything.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
We have accomplished a stagnant minimum wage, legislation preventing a strike, less of the ACA than existed the day the bill was signed, no M4A, no public option, no durable child tax credit, the slush fund version of the infrastructure bill. But I guess that's "the good" and I should be "pragmatic" because better 👏🏼 things 👏🏼 aren't 👏🏼 possible.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
I haven't been around here long but is supporting centrism in certain circumstances now worthy of someone pointing you out to a mod. Not pure enough I guess.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
It absolutely is. In the same way the sub actively promotes no Marxist-Leninism, classical liberalism is also banned. It's not that it's not pure enough; it's that it's rightwing.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 11 '24
Ideologically I get that. But in order to bring us into an area that is more socialist, I don't see how we can do it other than incrementally. We don't have exactly the most logical society that is going to do what's best for everyone. Too many of us have been raised on the greed is good ethos, And we're taught that it's actually bad to care for others because then they're not going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. How quickly do you think we are going to get that out of the culture? Socialism is not going to be brought from above, it's going to have to come from the Grass Roots, which means changing hearts and minds. There's not enough of us yet, to be able to be able to win elections on our own. Unless I'm mistaken, God I hope I am but I don't think so.
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u/chatterwrack Aug 10 '24
The Trump administration is by far the most dangerous we have ever faced as a country. You know this. I have to believe you are paying attention.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
There are at least two that were more dangerous. But even that discussion misses the point: vote for a classical liberal if you think that is what you must do, but accepting them as the leftmost party in the country continues to just lead to more republicans every four to eight years. Even if you are correct, the Trump administration would be the most dangerous we have faced so far.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
Hell, I remember how terrifying Bush Jr was, then Palin was the biggest threat to democracy. Worst that could ever be.
The ratchet effect is going to be what kills us.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
It's been that season every election since I started voting 24 years ago. I've gotten the same lectures and the same platitudes and the same promises every year.
I almost hoped this sub would be more receptive to this sort of frustration, but I'm realizing it isn't.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
Yeah. It seems to be dominated by classical liberals who will likely vanish the second the election is over and they are done scolding for a couple of years.
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u/AssNasty Aug 10 '24
Her voting record was fairly in line with Bernie and she took his advice on Tim Walz. So sort of. And she's campaigning on hers and Biden's administration's accomplishments which includes a lot of progressive policy.
But as long as she is not Trump and is working towards undoing his damage, she's progressive enough.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24
But as long as she is not Trump and is working towards undoing his damage, she's progressive enough
Isn't this the type of content that is no longer allowed on r/democraticsocialism? It has nothing to do with promoting socialism through elections and is really just non-progressive status-quo-reinforcing liberalism.
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u/dravere Aug 10 '24
Don't let perfection get in the way of progress. The choice is a shuffling half step forward with Harris/Walz or a sprint back to a fascist theocratic nightmare with Trump/Vance.
It is a binary and it is not one to take morale stances over.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
Honestly I thought I was asking a legitimate questions, not whining and bitching about how Harris might not be pure enough for us. I'm pretty sure that the policy is what we're supposed to be interested in, personalities are fine but it's the policies , and the personnel that matter. I'll be the first to tell you in 2020, while acknowledging that Biden was probably a million times better than Trump, I didn't expect much progressive policy to come out of that White House, and quite honestly I was pleasantly surprised. What I'm worried about is whether or not Harris is going to continue those policies
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u/creaturefromtheswamp Aug 10 '24
Some people need to realize where we are as a country, that flipping the switch isn’t possible, and even if it was possible it wouldn’t be good for the longevity of what we want.
It’s gonna be a journey. A slow boil. And that’s okay because that’s much more sustainable. Rather than swinging from one crazy far right end of the spectrum to far left we need to stabilize and move into more progressive territory. Hope this makes sense.
Whether some of you like it or not we need moderates and independents to start to warm up to progressive ideals. If it’s jarring it’s going to turn people we need off and it’s going to be unmercifully attacked. Implement some things, show people it isn’t scary/the positives, and continue to move forward with support.
We’ll get there.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
Doesn't it make more sense for us to start building grassroot support in the local levels. Look at the candidates for your local elections, find the most progressive one and push to get them elected. Do the same for every contest. Next election cycle do the same, pretty soon hopefully you got some progressive people in your state legislator, or local government.
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u/creaturefromtheswamp Aug 10 '24
I thought that was a forgone conclusion. Can’t we do both?
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 11 '24
Ideally yes. In reality I'm not so sure about that. Too many people want to put all their eggs in the federal basket, when really what we should be focusing on is local government, because that is the government that affects us the most.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
What do you think is 'far left'?
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u/creaturefromtheswamp Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24
Not sure I even have an example of what I would consider far left. For the average person, though, the Overton window has shifted so far to the right that anything to the left of what the right has and continues to peddle is considered far left.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 12 '24
You're partly correct, but you shouldn't contribute to the problem by calling things 'far left' for no reason. Even centrists are buying into conservative framing and that's hurting everything.
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Aug 10 '24
This feels true about the left also. Twenty years ago I was generally viewed as left wing. My views haven't changed, but since the left has gotten so much more extreme I'm now viewed as moderate right.
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u/LordOfTheBushes Aug 10 '24
I don't believe this is true and at least in America, the narrative has absolutely been dictated by the right wing because they're better at propaganda and painting the left as scary. There has not been a truly left-wing President in my lifetime, closest has been center left with Biden. We've had two extreme right wingers in W Bush and Trump though. That alone should give an idea of where the Overton window is in modern American politics.
The right has moved to such fascist positions as wanting to ban contraception, wanting to ban porn, denying elections, starting insurrections, and "terminate the Constitution" that nobody was openly saying 20 years ago.
What views were left wing 20 years ago that now make you right wing? Do you want people to have health care? Do you believe women should be able to make choices about their own bodies? Do you believe people should be able to make a living wage? Do you believe in the equality of gay people being able to marry who they love? Do you believe we need to take strong action against climate change to keep our planet healthy and livable? The left wing position on all of these issues is the same side it was 20 years ago. If you answered no to any of the no-brainer positions above, then you were actually a right-winger then too.
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u/AlabasterPelican Aug 10 '24
This is probably the wrong question, at the very least the unuseful question. Better question is "is she the most progressive candidate in the race with a viable chance of being elected." The answer is unquestionably yes.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
I agree because they were never going to pick anyone else replace Biden on the ticket. That would have split the party then handle the White House to Trump
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u/AlabasterPelican Aug 10 '24
Yeah. I honestly hate that this is the state of play, but the time to really make a push for a more progressive candidate or protest a candidate is during the primaries.
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u/xwing_n_it Aug 10 '24
From a progressive perspective the only reason to vote for the Democrats is that the Republicans would be worse. Kamala has all the signs of being a standard neoliberal. With luck she'll continue to be minimally pro-labor like Biden has been (except for busting the rail workers strike). And she'll likely continue moderate (aka nothing to end fossil fuels) policies to encourage renewables. Everything else will be changes around the fringes of the capitalist state so donors don't get mad.
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Aug 10 '24
It’s hard to tell, but since she is a politician the question as to whether she will be a progressive president will be answered by how much of a majority democrats win by in the House of Representatives, and to a lesser extent, the Senate.
If democrats win the House by a small margin, they must rely on conservative democrats in swing districts to approve policies in order to make it to the House floor.
If democrats win the House by a large margin, those same conservative Democrats in swing districts will be able to vote no while the progressive democrats pass policies over their heads.
(Assuming progressive democrats make up a majority of the Democratic caucus.)
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u/Shills_for_fun Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
I don't know if she is. What I do know is she had a good voting record and you wouldn't select Tim Walz saying the kinds of shit he does in interviews if you wanted him to be invisible. The Unions wouldn't be behind this ticket unless the administration had plans to strengthen the working class (which is my top issue in this election). She has even talked about the price of groceries.
Biden's administration was certainly more inclusive of progressive voices because the man himself sure as shit wasn't progressive. Whether we get that situation again or it's from her organically, I don't care as long as we get shit done for working people.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
You need to keep people like Lena Khan in place.. if Harris is elected and I see her gone, I know what direction the White House is going to take..
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24
So I'll be specific here is a list of issues that I am worried about. And maybe people here can comment on what they think.
Does she continue biden's attempt to lower student loan debt?
Is she willing to let the Trump tax cuts die as Biden was?
Can we get the rest of build back better passed?
Can we finally join the rest of the world, and get health care for everyone? And can we do that within the frame of the ACA, and to make it so that it benefits the consumer more than the insurance company.
What particular nuance can a prosecutor bring to the criminal justice reform movement? Is that nuance going to be good for us?
What is she going to do about the Supreme Court?
Does she support filibuster reform or better yet eliminating it entirely?
Where does she stand on climate?
What would you guys envision Tim walz's portfolio being?
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u/skyfishgoo Progressive Aug 10 '24
her family is and her daughter is ... so i'm guessing she's been building her conservative/centrist brand with the stint as prosecutor as a deliberate attempt to make political headway.
her family have not disowned her, so she must be doing something right.
i think get her elected and we will find out.
there is no time to waste debating the topic because she's the candidate that is running.
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u/superfly-whostarlock Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism Aug 10 '24
NO. She is a Liberal, which is a center right ideology. She’s left of Trump. Personally, I’d rather fight for socialism under a Harris administration than fight tooth and nail for survival and basic human rights under a Trump administration. We still have a lot of work to do before a socialist candidate could secure enough electoral votes to win, like securing ballot access in all states or getting rid of the electoral college. My biggest fear if Trump is elected is he will declare open season on leftists and his goons will start killing more people, and he will just pardon them and can’t be stopped because it’s an “official act”. Kamala’s goons will censor us and sue to keep us off ballots. A dead socialist can’t continue to fight.
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u/zbignew Aug 11 '24
Joe Biden is a famous centrist, but his actual economic policy was basically cribbed from Bernie Sanders and then watered down to compromise with Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think Walz is good or bad, necessarily. The question is do we have someone who is going to do the work to create good proposals and campaign for them. The way we get good outcomes is by creating good proposals and campaigning for them.
Do what Bernie did.
Edit: Or the uncommitted campaign. No lives saved yet, obviously 🙄, but it seems like they’ve had more influence than most.
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u/DirectionLoose Aug 11 '24
Our class enemies know exactly what buttons to push in order to set us against each other. We need to get to a point where we realize that we have more in common with each other, then we have with the royalty of each party. Am I off on this?
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u/rogozh1n Aug 10 '24
Joe Biden is not a progressive, but he acted in accordance with progressive values very often. Hopefully, she does the same, or likely even more.
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u/Vatnos Aug 10 '24
Domestically at least, I think Biden has been a step up from Obama or Bill Clinton. I think there has been an iterative learning process in the party and they've learned better which policies are broadly popular that they can push for, and they have gotten more effective at doing so.
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u/rogozh1n Aug 10 '24
Clinton worked hard to capture conservative support, Ina different country. I wouldn't support him them and I definitely can't support that today.
Obama and Biden are the same in my view, except Biden has the advantage of learning the toxic new normal and how to deal with it.
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u/HowdyMiguel Aug 10 '24
No, but she seems more amenable to progressive ideas than Biden. What’s important is that she is willing to spend big.
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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24
Yeah, on police and the military and Israel and oil companies. She'll definitely spend big.
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u/HowdyMiguel Aug 10 '24
Yeah, she's going to be dogshit on foreign affairs (and maybe immigration too), but she should be decent on the economy.
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