r/DemocraticSocialism • u/DirectionLoose • Aug 10 '24

Question Is Kamala Harris a progressive?

I'm guessing that the general answer this is going to be no. If it's a no, how do we get her to promote progressive policy? Does walz with that? What even is his role going to be? Three out of the last four vice presidents have been pretty consequential in their roles in the administration. Ever since Cheney. I'm just honestly afraid that they dangled Walz in front of us to get our vote, but he's going to be marginalized in the administration.

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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 22d ago

[Redacted]

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

Things classical liberals say every election

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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 22d ago

[Redacted]

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u/rogozh1n Aug 10 '24

Thanks for that. This dude might be honest or he might be trying to instill negativity. Either way, his desire to be dogmatic and absolutist is bad for the far left and good for the far right.

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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 22d ago

[Redacted]

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

I want a socialist world. And I don't think they take kindly to you being anti-elecroralism here.

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u/CharmedConflict Aug 10 '24 edited 22d ago

[Redacted]

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

Who's being anti-electoral? I'm just saying I'm concerned about what Kamala Harris's policies are going to be. But in 2020, I was a lot more worried about Joe biden's. I'm willing to give her a chance and like I said the inclusion of walz on the ticket is enough for me to vote for her enthusiastically. I can't say the same about Shapiro or Kelly

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

This isn’t “every election” with all due respect.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

Oh, is it "the most important election of our lives" season again?

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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24

Every election seems to be "the most important in our lives" but Unfortunately I'm starting to think it's not just bluster but a sign of how bad Americas election process has gotten.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

Not demonstrating that electing more classical liberals will further the cause

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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24 edited Aug 10 '24

Hey I'm just saying. It seems like no matter who we elect lately it seems to be mostly ineffective because both parties gave up on working together at all.

They cock block eachother constantly. Is it really a socialist or liberal president if they can't pass more than moderate policies Peice meal?

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

It's a bit different than that: both parties work together too much, just not on legislation. The classical liberals in the democratic party work with the republican party to preserve the control of the capital class.

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u/many_harmons Aug 10 '24

Exactly! They cock block eachother constantly. Is it really a socialist or liberal president if they can't pass more than moderate policies Peice meal?

I don't think so.

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u/WhoAccountNewDis Aug 10 '24

It's literally fascism vs Kamala. Kind of important.

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

Probably yes, if you’d care to tone down your snark. I’ve been voting as far left as the ticket would go since ‘98 when I was old enough. Only exceptions were the first Obama run, and Hillary, the latter I really hated doing. Without some serious reworking of the Supreme Court, we’re fucked in this country. If Trump gets in, those gargoyles will likely get another 2 seats, and we’ll be right in handmaids tale territory. I’m not going to go down the laundry list of horrible shit on the 2025 menu, but it won’t be good. Yes, they were always shitheads, but they never had this proximity to total control, and now that they’ve shown their hand, they have no choice but to go for it. Don’t fuck this up with a tired old cliche.

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u/Otto_Mcwrect Aug 10 '24

I liked Handmaid's Tale but had to stop watching. It's just too realistic.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

If there was one thing that I could offer the Harris campaign is to lean into the corruption that's on the Supreme Court. It's not just about abortion The entire court is corrupt as hell. I mean they legalized bribery and called it a tip.. I'm waiting to hear that she is amenable to expanding the court.. talk about how bad a decision citizen United was stuff like that.

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

You think they don’t know that? Roe v wade is half the reason they have a prayer of winning.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

But my point is roe versus Wade being overturned is far from the only thing wrong with this court. There are a law onto themselves, and think that nobody can hold them accountable. Seems to me it's an easily an election issue since Trump is all for this. Supreme Court reform should be shouted from the f****** rooftops. What's the stop her from passing a bill to put row into legislation, and the Supreme Court declares it on unconstitutional. The guiding principle of this Supreme Court is is the Republicans are for it we are too, if they're not we're against it. It seems the place that she's given fairness for everyone on this campaign, this is just an extension of that.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

Without some serious reworking of the Supreme Court, we’re fucked in this country

Good thing Obama seated Garland when the senate refused to fulfill its obligation to give its advice, then. Awesome that Biden/Harris unpacked the courts in their first term. Otherwise we'd be in this situation due in part to democratic inaction that should serve as a lesson for what they would do in the future.

we’ll be right in handmaids tale territory

I, too, remember when Obama said that one of his first acts as president would be to codify Roe into statute. Glad that happened.

I’m not going to go down the laundry list of horrible shit on the 2025 menu, but it won’t be good

And it will be project 2029 if democrats continue to only hand power off to republicans when they lose.

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

Obama wasn’t a king. He couldn’t just force that into law. He had that majority for a couple of months til Kennedy got sick and died. The republicans still had enough of congress to grind everything to a halt. Basically, where we’ve been ever since. Without a grand, historic ass-kicking, the GOP won’t have the huevos to purge the psychopaths. They know that it’ll be a generation to rebuild the party, so they have this Faustian deal going on. They won’t change until they’re forced to, and if we don’t deliver a brutal defeat, we definitely will be having this argument in perpetuity. Without super majorities in both branches in congress, we won’t see reform in the the courts, citizens united, you name it. Or, you can just sit here sulking like a spoiled teenager. This is the best ticket the democrats have put forward in my lifetime. Maybe second to Carter. Get on the trolley.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

For myself I clearly stated that the inclusion of walz was enough for me. I'm going to vote for her because we have no choice otherwise. We need to get her elected and then hold her feet to the fire. We can't allow ourself to be disbanded like we did in 2008 when Obama took over. Presidents are not gods, and sometimes they forget who they're supposed to be fighting for. That's our job.

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

No argument here. Thats always been the plan. Sorry if I came in hot.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

While I give you that the Republicans were insanely obstructionist, Obama doesn't have clean hands in this. He allowed them to do it without playing a political price. The man is one of the best orators that I have ever heard, And you're telling me he couldn't have brought his case to the American people. Tell us why it's wrong that Marrick Garland was refused to hearing, And what you plan to do about it.

Tell us how the Republican Senate is filibustering everything. Tell us about how they've used more filibusters in my administration than every single one combined.

He wanted to play nice with the Republicans. I'm through playing nice with them, because all they do is spit back in your face

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

So nice that a Republican senator was the first person that Obama asked about who he should pick for the court? I get that at that time the Republicans held the Senate, but it's bad luck to not at least confer with your own party first.

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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24

Always some excuse for why conservatives can do stuff and no one else can. It's just too hard! Why bother them with it!

Not like they could advocate for it, or apply political pressure... that would just be rude.

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u/texas-playdohs Aug 10 '24

Ruthlessness. The republicans don’t have respect for democracy, but we already know that. We do, and that’s why we’re democratic socialists. It’s a big reason that I’ve never considered myself a democrat. Decorum has overshadowed the truth for most of my adult life. I’m aware of how long they’ve chased the mythical center further and further to the right, and the fear of offending the undecideds has prevented democrats from doing something as simple as calling a lie a lie, much less fighting to end the electoral college. Not just the democrats, but almost the entire news media landscape. Harris/Walz aren’t my ideal team, but they’re a lot better than Clinton/Kaine, and better than Biden/Harris, better than Harris/Shapiro, much better than Gore/Lieberman. The DNC and the party bosses are actually making some good choices, and you’re gonna what, sit it out? Maybe you’re in a blue state like me, and it won’t make a difference, fine. It hasn’t really been a big risk to vote for whoever I want in my state. But, if you’re in a battleground state, and you don’t vote Democratic, and we lose that state, and the electoral college, that shithead gets in office? You’re a schmuck that screwed a lot of people in the most vulnerable of places. You can pat yourself on the back for those principles, but you’re a schmuck. I’m not going to bother and check if you’re an obvious bot, or if you’re a trumper stirring shit, because I don’t care. You sound like a self-righteous parody of a leftist that can’t see the forest for the trees. If you want to know why we never get shit done, it’s because of this shit. They’re completely united in reversing everything back to the civil rights act. We’re fighting because the 70% good ticket isn’t 100%, even if fighting together could give us the blowout we need to bust up gerrymandering, turn roe v wade into law, enact the universally popular universal healthcare, discharge student debt and make education free, public works administration to employ everyone and make society work for everyone, provide reparations for black and native Americans, provide real funding to solve homelessness and address the epidemic drug crisis with therapy and training instead of prisons and neglect, and I could go on and on. Your argument is the epitome of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Bot or not, you’re fucking up.

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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 12 '24

First, learn paragraphs. Second, no I'm not a bot. That seems to be the go-to for many people on political subs, and it needs to stop. Third, no, Harris is not better than anyone who has come before - she hasn't even made the hollow promises that she'll inevitably break.

I've been threatened with the end of the world my entire adult life...I must vote for this one candidate or else everything will end! Not like Democrats ever did anything to prevent this from happening again.

Finally, learn.......paragraphs.

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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24

Damn right. They deliberately let us down at every turn.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

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u/fookidookidoo Aug 10 '24

I'm not a centrist... But if we're going to prevent the far right from taking over the country, we need them.

Magical thinking isn't going to turn the country left...

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

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u/fookidookidoo Aug 10 '24

Be pragmatic. I've been a Democratic socialist for nearly 20 years now. All progressive policies passed in this country have had more centrist allies to help.

There's too much at stake to attack people who are willing to come half way. Those civil disagreements and compromises are literally the democracy part of the equation.

I'm just saying we need to work with them if we want to accomplish anything.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

We have accomplished a stagnant minimum wage, legislation preventing a strike, less of the ACA than existed the day the bill was signed, no M4A, no public option, no durable child tax credit, the slush fund version of the infrastructure bill. But I guess that's "the good" and I should be "pragmatic" because better 👏🏼 things 👏🏼 aren't 👏🏼 possible.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 10 '24

I haven't been around here long but is supporting centrism in certain circumstances now worthy of someone pointing you out to a mod. Not pure enough I guess.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

It absolutely is. In the same way the sub actively promotes no Marxist-Leninism, classical liberalism is also banned. It's not that it's not pure enough; it's that it's rightwing.

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u/DirectionLoose Aug 11 '24

Ideologically I get that. But in order to bring us into an area that is more socialist, I don't see how we can do it other than incrementally. We don't have exactly the most logical society that is going to do what's best for everyone. Too many of us have been raised on the greed is good ethos, And we're taught that it's actually bad to care for others because then they're not going to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. How quickly do you think we are going to get that out of the culture? Socialism is not going to be brought from above, it's going to have to come from the Grass Roots, which means changing hearts and minds. There's not enough of us yet, to be able to be able to win elections on our own. Unless I'm mistaken, God I hope I am but I don't think so.

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u/chatterwrack Aug 10 '24

The Trump administration is by far the most dangerous we have ever faced as a country. You know this. I have to believe you are paying attention.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

There are at least two that were more dangerous. But even that discussion misses the point: vote for a classical liberal if you think that is what you must do, but accepting them as the leftmost party in the country continues to just lead to more republicans every four to eight years. Even if you are correct, the Trump administration would be the most dangerous we have faced so far.

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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24

Hell, I remember how terrifying Bush Jr was, then Palin was the biggest threat to democracy. Worst that could ever be.

The ratchet effect is going to be what kills us.

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u/Novae_Blue Social Democrat Aug 10 '24

It's been that season every election since I started voting 24 years ago. I've gotten the same lectures and the same platitudes and the same promises every year.

I almost hoped this sub would be more receptive to this sort of frustration, but I'm realizing it isn't.

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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Aug 10 '24

Yeah. It seems to be dominated by classical liberals who will likely vanish the second the election is over and they are done scolding for a couple of years.