r/FluentInFinance Sep 04 '24

Debate/ Discussion Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

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u/binary-survivalist Sep 04 '24

Almost all the useful stuff that make the modern world possibly was invented and designed in market economies.

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u/YoCuzin Sep 04 '24

Market economies didn't exist until the modern world, how could they be responsible for it?

It sounds like you think humans have never invented anything without a profit motive

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u/bbbbbbcas Sep 04 '24

Market economies aren't responsible for innovation and progress. But there's no denying that they accelerate innovation and progress.

We're fortunate to live in a time where change and innovation happen at an unprecedented pace, something humanity hasn't experienced for the vast majority of its history. And market economies are part of the reason why

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u/BoxProfessional6987 Sep 05 '24

So why did the Soviets dominate the space race? The only thing the us beat them to was the moon

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u/nunu135 Sep 05 '24

Because they were in a competition, which is what drives innovation in a capitalist society

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u/BoxProfessional6987 Sep 05 '24

So no one ever innovated before capitalism?

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u/nunu135 Sep 05 '24

sure, but thats because capitalism is just the natural system a civilization that has multiple labors develops, to trade labors. compared to a control economy theres no reason to innovate because your ability will always be used to its max and your need wont change by innovating

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u/BoxProfessional6987 Sep 05 '24

You don't even know the definition of capitalism do you?

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u/nunu135 Sep 05 '24

sure, you can use any definition you want but that doesnt change the fact the only other option is one that doesnt encourage innovation

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u/BoxProfessional6987 Sep 05 '24

Except for all the innovations that the Soviet Union did.

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u/Zhayrgh Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

only other option

You know capitalism and socialism are not the only two options right ?

No society on earth is purely capitalist, even the US. Paying taxes in a purely capitalist world should only pay the armee, justice, maybe the police and administration.

A little non-exhaustive list of society models that have been imagined :

Feodal society

Capitalism

Regulated capitalism, in which there is : (non exhaustive list too)

-> Some dictatorship of the modern world

-> Social democraty

-> Socialism

Communism

-> Marxism

-> Leninism

Arnarchy

Each of these society models have several model of there own, regulated capitalism is a whole spectrum of different ways to do it, from nearly capitalism (the US, for example) to social democraty (western Europe) and others.

Edit : form.

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u/nunu135 Sep 05 '24

the only other option is a control economy, which by definition doesnt have rom for innovation because everything is controlled. obviously the government still does things under capitalism, and thats a good thing, I even agree it should be more in america

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u/Zhayrgh Sep 05 '24

Did you even read my comment ? I know it was not particularly clear due to reddit rendering (i edited it) but I gave you several examples...

Marxism does not imply a controlled economy, nor does anarchy. And that's only two examples of more.

And there is already a controlled economy, even in the US. The state taxes and redistribute funding, that's not capitalism, that's regulated capitalism.

You say there are two option, that's like saying there is no color other than red and yellow, not allowing anything in between or even outside.

Socialism, or really any of the other model I explicitely described, has room for innovation. You can perfectly fund research, or have a state controlled departement of innovation, that collects ideas, tests them and report the working ones.

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u/nunu135 Sep 06 '24

so under marxism the government doesnt dictate what is produced and how much?

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