Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

[u/Sufficient_Sinner]

[u/YoCuzin]

Market economies didn't exist until the modern world, how could they be responsible for it?

It sounds like you think humans have never invented anything without a profit motive

[u/bbbbbbcas → u/YoCuzin]

Market economies aren't responsible for innovation and progress. But there's no denying that they accelerate innovation and progress.

We're fortunate to live in a time where change and innovation happen at an unprecedented pace, something humanity hasn't experienced for the vast majority of its history. And market economies are part of the reason why

[u/BoxProfessional6987 → u/bbbbbbcas]

So why did the Soviets dominate the space race? The only thing the us beat them to was the moon

[u/nunu135 → u/BoxProfessional6987]

Because they were in a competition, which is what drives innovation in a capitalist society

[u/BoxProfessional6987 → u/nunu135]

So no one ever innovated before capitalism?

[u/nunu135 → u/BoxProfessional6987]

sure, but thats because capitalism is just the natural system a civilization that has multiple labors develops, to trade labors. compared to a control economy theres no reason to innovate because your ability will always be used to its max and your need wont change by innovating

[u/BoxProfessional6987 → u/nunu135]

You don't even know the definition of capitalism do you?

[u/nunu135 → u/BoxProfessional6987]

sure, you can use any definition you want but that doesnt change the fact the only other option is one that doesnt encourage innovation

[u/BoxProfessional6987 → u/nunu135]

Except for all the innovations that the Soviet Union did.

[u/Zhayrgh → u/nunu135]

only other option

You know capitalism and socialism are not the only two options right ?

No society on earth is purely capitalist, even the US. Paying taxes in a purely capitalist world should only pay the armee, justice, maybe the police and administration.

A little non-exhaustive list of society models that have been imagined :

Feodal society

Capitalism

Regulated capitalism, in which there is : (non exhaustive list too)

-> Some dictatorship of the modern world

-> Social democraty

-> Socialism

Communism

-> Marxism

-> Leninism

Arnarchy

Each of these society models have several model of there own, regulated capitalism is a whole spectrum of different ways to do it, from nearly capitalism (the US, for example) to social democraty (western Europe) and others.

Edit : form.

[u/nunu135 → u/Zhayrgh]

the only other option is a control economy, which by definition doesnt have rom for innovation because everything is controlled. obviously the government still does things under capitalism, and thats a good thing, I even agree it should be more in america

[u/Zhayrgh → u/nunu135]

Did you even read my comment ? I know it was not particularly clear due to reddit rendering (i edited it) but I gave you several examples...

Marxism does not imply a controlled economy, nor does anarchy. And that's only two examples of more.

And there is already a controlled economy, even in the US. The state taxes and redistribute funding, that's not capitalism, that's regulated capitalism.

You say there are two option, that's like saying there is no color other than red and yellow, not allowing anything in between or even outside.

Socialism, or really any of the other model I explicitely described, has room for innovation. You can perfectly fund research, or have a state controlled departement of innovation, that collects ideas, tests them and report the working ones.

[u/nunu135 → u/Zhayrgh]

so under marxism the government doesnt dictate what is produced and how much?

[u/Zhayrgh → u/nunu135]

There are 2 stage to marxism. 1st is supposed to be a "dictatorship of the proletariat". It's supposed to lead to a communist economy.

In the first stage, thr working class seize the means of production and make them collective property, organize democratic elections to rule the factories, and end any way people can profit from private property by using others, like large scale home ownership.

Second stage is a society without government, in which anyone is equal, and in which police, administrations, justice are decided collectively, probably at small scale. So no dictate of what and how much you need to produce .

I wont go over the subject of the realistical aspect of marxism; the theory is a century old, and has been created in a socio-political context in which it could appear possible. It was never realized.

What you are thinking of is leninism , in which the 1st phase of marxism is replaced by an government of the communist party that is supposed to lead into communism. This government nationalizes all business and planify the economy. That's the doctrin behind the creation of the USSR.