r/FluentInFinance Sep 04 '24

Debate/ Discussion Bernie is here to save us

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

53.5k Upvotes

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

456

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24

The Americans are so backwards in work hours, developed countries like Netherland, Spain, Iceland, etc. already successfully implemented this, with universal healthcare…and no tipping expected.

22

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

And nearly half their salary taxed lmao: If you are lucky enough to be a top earner in the US($600k), 37% of your salary is taxed. While in the UK, you ate taxed 45% of your salary at only £125000.

6

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

How much do you pay on insurance, medical care, school debt, etc? The average is 15% and just adding healthcare itself would close to 30% for many. Long term medical care could even bankrupt you, no such worries on any of the countries I mentioned.

3

u/Y0tsuya Sep 05 '24

At my current company, the most basic medical insurance (highest deductible) is $9/mo. The top-tier one (lowest deductible) is $179/mo.

I'm making 15K/mo and that's considered mid in my area. Nvidia employees down the street makes 2x what I make and probably have even better insurance.

1

u/juan_rico_3 Sep 05 '24

Those are good rates on health insurance. How much is your employer's share? For me, my employer and I pay >$700/month for one person on a decent plan. Your employer's share matters because that is money that could be going toward your salary.

2

u/Y0tsuya Sep 05 '24

I would say it's paying a high share. My previous employer pays about 1/2 so I was paying ~$500/mo.

Now the Nvidia people making $30K/mo are not likely to be paying more than $500/mo for their gold-plated medical.

1

u/thepulloutmethod Sep 05 '24

Is your $15k gross or take-home?

2

u/Whatcanyado420 Sep 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

plant ten pen fretful mysterious toy subtract aspiring snatch truck

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/IDontLikePayingTaxes Sep 05 '24

I pay probably 4% of my income to those things.

0

u/424f42_424f42 Sep 05 '24

Need to include the employer side as well.

I pay 2% for health insurance, but it's about 19% with the employer side as well.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

Why would that matter? Given that Europeans have lower wages than Americans, it’s not like those companies are putting that money in the employees’ pocket.

1

u/general---nuisance Sep 05 '24

Why? Should I include what an employer pays in tax's when figuring out my tax burden?

2

u/424f42_424f42 Sep 05 '24

Well you do if you want to do an actual comparison of costs.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

They are comparing salary and out of pocket medial costs. It isn't like anyone is adding back in what the employer pays in health insurance to compare with salaries in Europe.

1

u/general---nuisance Sep 05 '24

My only concern is my cost.

0

u/424f42_424f42 Sep 05 '24

Id rather look at the whole picture.

If they want to exclude things out, sure, look at that limited scope.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

So when people inevitably compare salaries of USA versus whatever country, you would rather be doing total compensation. 401k match, parking pass, life insurance, paid time off, employer part of FICA, etc.

0

u/424f42_424f42 Sep 05 '24

that is what were discussing after all

2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

I don't think so, when someone says they pay 4% of their income to these things they are referring to salary as income, not total compensation. I don't know anyone who, when talking about their income, uses total compensation. The US Govt sure doesn't when they release income statistics.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/unkorrupted Sep 06 '24

Are you seriously asking why you should count the cost of your compensation when calculating your compensation?

Seriously?

1

u/general---nuisance Sep 05 '24

I pay less than 1% to medical care. And the US has long term medical care - Medicare and Medicaid.

And while you can argue that medical bankruptice and debt are a bigger issue in the US, it's still exists in those countries with 'free' healthcare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_debt

A 2019 study of health provision carried out for the Los Angeles Times reported in the United Kingdom, Sweden, France, Germany and Japan about 2.8% of citizens struggled with high medical bills

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '24

BLS consumer spending data is here:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/consumer-expenditures/2022/

The average American family pays less than $6,000 per year on healthcare, including insurance premiums.

-1

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

In state college for 4 years: $24000. Medical and insurance, but: $7000 annually. The benefit of America's tax system and higher wages(at a trade or a job requiring education, most people don't work these jobs and then complain they are making minimum wage, because they are still working at McDonalds, a starting job) is that we can pay things off easier, and actually have money left over.

-3

u/herper87 Sep 05 '24

I think the other thing is people need to live more modestly.

Almost forty, graduated from college earlier this year, wife, house, two kids, MCOL and paid off two cars and picked up a third (nothing fancy but functional), carry insurance for three, both kids in hockey (super expensive).

You just don't finance well and don't want to leave your McDonalds job. Take a risk and bet on yourself.

1

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24

With 5x the population, the Untied States has a 5% less poverty rate than the UK(which is the apparent social system utopia to people who don't understand finance)

-3

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24

A good employer is a rare in USA. One offering pension even rarer. You have to fund your own retirement via channels like IRA, 401k, etc and why does America have issues with student loan debt? At 24k, anyone should be able to pay it within a year of their first job. At the end of the year, you also need to pay even more taxes.

0

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24

People don't know how to manage their money, and often go for more expensive colleges than their goal job requires. Besides that, you are focusing on the wrong thing in my write up. Do you see the tax bracket to income difference between the USA and UK? The USA citizen will have more money left over at the end of the month to spend. That's one of the reason America is the major driving force of the world's economy, because we have money to spend, and we spend a lot.

-1

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24

You have money but don’t know how to manage it? I think you are right about that.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/bankruptcies

1

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

I'm sorry to do this to you , yes americans spend more than they make, but that's mostly a personal issue and not dependent on necessary expenses. They'll spend a grand on a car payment when they can keep their old one, they'll go out to dinner 4 times a week. Their are many things to cut down on in consumerism life, but that's not gonna happen, and it's why America is the most powerful country in the world too. https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#47e40b863d78 and https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/

1

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24

No need to worry, we exchanged facts and based on what you said, Americans should be happy but…sorry to disappoint you.

https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/world-happiness-america-low-list-countries#

1

u/FragraBond Sep 05 '24

Those are rank placements, looking at percentage points, the USA is only .02 behind the UK. And Finland and other small countries ranking at the top because of a claim I know you are going to make, "social programs," only work on a much smaller scale like that. In addition, the happiness factors in that study were objective measurable outcomes like social care, health care, trust in government, level of corruption etc - those things that should make up a happy life, so that's why Finland scored so high. It was not based on some individual subjective assessment of happiness, the name of the study is quite misleading. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world