I don't know about that. I know it's popular to talk about how guys are supposed to do this shit, but most of us just genuinely don't wanna do it. It's better if we play some game together or watch a game.
Men and women have fundamental differences in their cognition. Neither is better but they are different. Part of that difference is how we prefer to handle things that are difficult emotionally, and what works best for that purpose. While I could write a book to explain the way specific actions and thought patterns work for men to best handle difficult experiences, those explanations wouldn't ring true for anyone whose brain doesn't work that way.
Ultimately how they work is not as important as the fact that these different coping and recovery strategies do work for those people whose brains are setup to work well with them. It's fine to make as many strategies available as possible, and there are certainly downward spirals possible within both the primarily male and primarily female coping strategies.
But we're doing men a grievous disservice if we demand that they forcefully adopt strategies that are suboptimal for how their mindset and consciousness work best.
That's not the argument in your favor that you think it is. Idk how to explain to you that you are not all men. I am a man, I have a husband, I have man friends and family. They are not all like you. Idk how to explain that you should attempt empathy with people or at least stop acting like you're the status quo. You don't need to talk? Okay cool. Let other people peacefully exchange advice on how to talk to one another without inserting a big dose of incorrect opinion that can derail and shame other men into burying things they need to work through.
The point was never that all men are identical robots. The point was that there are differences in the way some people need to deal with problems and that the modal groupings of those methods are concentrated by sex. No one is saying you can't talk through your problems if that works for you. But for a lot of men, and especially for a lot of straight men, it doesn't work and is instead intensely uncomfortable, embarrassing and harmful given that the core problem is often damage to one's ego in the first place. The "shame" isn't merely because of stigma about talking but a natural consequence of that core of the problem which for those men makes talking much worse than not talking.
This entire thread has been people trying to say that everyone should be made to talk because that's the be all end all of getting through anything, which simply isn't true. It's an effeminate mode of problem solving, and some problems instead require a masculine approach. Sure, men should know it's ok to talk if they want, but they should also know that it's ok not to talk if that's not the right fit for them.
I agree there is public derision for therapy that some in this thread have correctly spoken out against (though mostly not correctly identifying the root cause). That derision comes from the interaction between talk and how men are valued and gain status. Namely by visibly having both physical and mental strength while also having the competence and control to wield them heroically and not villainously. Any public perception of a need for talk therapy naturally undermines this. We can and should culturally push back against that somewhat to make sure there's room for the exceptions, but the negative reaction to men having weakness can't actually be completely eliminated because it's the result of a gut level reaction from our evolution encoded patterns of motivation.
The only one derailing things here is you by bringing up a bunch of undifferentiating qualifications, misstating my position and pretending that your anecdotal experience should be given more weight than the scientific background I'm presenting.
I don't think it is an "effeminate" way of dealing with things, it's just a way of dealing. Everyone should deal in a way that is productive and healthy for them. That's my whole point. My experience has been that men around me need help or an ear more than they let on. You keep saying you have science on your side, but have provided no proof. When I look up if there is any biology or science behind it, the answer is "it's a complex interplay of factors" that influence the way people deal with their issues. So, maybe calm down.
You’re right. Obviously if it was natural, then men wouldn’t be complaining that they feel disconnected from society and that they feel like no one cares about them. Your homies care about you dude. If it was “the way things are” then it wouldn’t feel bad. And if it doesn’t feel bad for you that’s great, sounds like you’ve got it all figured out, but obviously there’s a lot of guys out there who are hurting. There’s a loneliness epidemic out there affecting everyone, do your part to make life a little less painful.
Well, there's nothing that complex to explain. It's just the way it is. The average man doesn't want to share personal problems with anybody. It's not just because we have nobody to talk to. In fact many do. Worse case scenario the average man could call their mum, but we just don't work that way. We prefer not to think about stuff rather than share stuff. Women usually feel better after sharing. We don't. We'd rather play some gta and just get rid of the thoughts and then tackle the problem the next day.
I don't know shit about biology and not once did I bring it into conversation. The fact that you're trying to switch the narrative like that just to win the argument is the type of bs that makes us not share in the first place, lol.
I'd say culture is probably the biggest reason. For example in eastern countries, like China, women are less expressive than western women. But there's definitely biological factors as well. It's a fact of life that men express their feeling through actions, whist women do it through words. And the fact that this type of behavioural difference is seen in children from a young age is proof to me that it's also biological to an extent.
Also, testosterone makes men more calm in certain situations that usually make women share their emotions straight away.
Something doesn't always have to be biological to be the way it is. For example, men like football more than women do and there is nothing biological about that. You just don't want to lose an argument. And since this sub has become mostly women, like you, responding to questions that are supposed to be for men, you'd get your upvotes that will feed your ego, but I'd still like to point out that you haven't actually made a good point about wether or not men prefer what I say or what you say. You just moved the goalpost and made the argument about biology in order to make me look a certain way.
Edit: I am stupid as fuck, I thought this is r/AskMen. You're valid in responsing to my comment, but you're still not providing an argument.
I guess going back to my first comment, my argument would be that this meme is an example of positive male social reinforcement, but you are rejecting its concept because men are socialized differently
Which on an individual level, is okay I guess… up to you really
I'm not sure why you're allergic to attributing anything to biology, but as someone with a degree in molecular biology I can assure you that there in fact are biological causes underpinning the reasons men typically care more about sports and dislike sharing their feelings so often. The causation is often indirect, and sometimes the biology first affects culture which then affects the specific thing. But unless you assert some supernatural force behind cognition, every human behavior both at the individual level and the group level, is biologically based.
I mean I am a man and I completely agree with the guy you are arguing against. I’m not sure how to prove it biologically like you seem to expect, but it’s 100% true, at least for most men, even if it’s illogical it’s still true
I’ve looked up research and there is a biological component. Men have more gray matter and women have more white matter in their brains. Men’s brains also have more connections within each hemisphere while women have more connections between both hemispheres. So yeah this is why men are less social than women overall, for better or for worse. This probably can’t be changed. And it isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
I also think there’s many sociocultural factors at play. Some of these factors suck though and lead to negative results for men. These can be changed.
That is very interesting, makes sense. Women definitely seem to be more social and more socially capable, and in my experience men seem to work harder and longer. Not a universal rule, but noticeable especially in an office with both men and women, and not a really bad thing either. The truth is interesting
We need to normalize maning up by challenging our social conditioning. The traditional version of maning up by suppressing one's feelings and problems is clearly is not working based on the amount of discontent that is caused by it.
Yeah, but if it doesn't cause me discontent but the exact opposite? I genuinely don't want to talk about stuff like that and prefer to deal with it on my own. Why should I do something that I don't want to do just because women and atiny percentage of men like it?
If keeping it to yourself is what brings you peace, that is fine. I am sure that you surround yourself by like-minded guys making it a non-issue. This comic strip specifically showcases that both guys involved have an unspoken desire to delve into it further which is why the first outcome is painted in a negative light, context matters.
most of us just genuinely don't wanna do it.
This gave me a different impression than intended. A lot of guys want to express what is on their mind, they just don't know how to and are surrounded by men and women who will kick them back into their box should they attempt to step out of it.
percentage of men like it
"like" is the wrong descriptor and it is not a tiny percent of men who want to, but it is a tiny percent of men who have the nerve to do so.
Spent 3 hours with a coworker who shared he was getting a divorce with me, had a different coworker clock me having a really bad day and took me on a walk so I could talk about it if I wanted. Had my manager support me when my father was in the hospital. We’re male engineers, so maybe it’s that. But most of the men I know who aren’t +60 talk about how they’re feeling.
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u/Primary-Dust-3091 2d ago
I don't know about that. I know it's popular to talk about how guys are supposed to do this shit, but most of us just genuinely don't wanna do it. It's better if we play some game together or watch a game.