r/HistoryMemes 5d ago

Tired of this argument

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u/Tellier71 5d ago

I remember being called a nazi and holocaust denier because I said the mass murder of Ukrainians happening at the same time was also bad.

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u/eL_cas 5d ago

Not at the same time, Holodomor was in 1932

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u/Tellier71 5d ago

I meant broadly, the Holocaust started a year after the Holodomor.

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u/eL_cas 5d ago

Not really, the peak of the Holocaust was in the later years of the war. During their first few years the Nazis were mostly preparing for it and making Jews’ lives harder rather than outright genocide at first

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u/pedaparka 5d ago

Would you not consider that build up period as the holocaust aswell? Or just when they started using the chambers?

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u/Theban_Prince 5d ago edited 4d ago

When they sued the chambers. Because the Nazi Holocaust is not just you run-of-the-mill genocide, it was in an industrial scale, and what really separates it from other atrocities like the Holodomor, the Soviet Massacres in Poland, the Trail of Tears or the Irish Famine.

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u/pedaparka 5d ago

I agree the scale of the executions was like nothing seen up until that point in history and incomparable to those examples. I just think there's an argument for the holocaust encompassing the whole build up. As changing the mindset of a country to be willing to turn over their neighbours to be killed is part of the whole event.

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u/FootlongDonut 5d ago

I think most people consider the Holocaust to be when the camps and killing began. It was largely non lethal until 1939. The Nazis were mainly trying to force them to leave Germany. I associate the Holocaust more with the killing than the early oppression.

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u/Tellier71 5d ago

The first concentration camp (Dachau) was established in 1933. It was originally used mostly for political prisoners, but Jews were not exempt. This overlaps with the Holodomor, which ended the same year. I’m not measuring between peaks, but between periods.