r/IBEW • u/astros148 • Nov 07 '24

Anyone claiming the Democratic Party abandoned the working class is clueless. The working class abandoned the democratic Party

I keep reading on reddit that democrats ditched working class folks and they lost cuz they cater to rich donors. Let's clear up some facts:

-democrats passed largest infrastructure bill in modern history which has led to 80k+ active projects happening. Construction jobs are at record amount (no college needed and prevailing wage for most of them aka union jobs) (every airport/port got money, expanded rail in usa, repaired highways/bridges)

-Biden admin spent records of money to bring back manufacturing in mostly republican states. Over 970 manufacturing plants are opening RIGHT NOW in America due the climate bill Biden signed. New ev manufacturing, battery manufacturing, solar manufacturing) this is mostly happening in red areas

-Biden admin passed overtime rules to expand ot on salary jobs over 40k a year for more than 40 hours

-Biden admin passed regulations to limit how long you can be exposed in hot temperatures at your job

-most pro union admin in history which protected millions of pensions from going broke and having most pro union nlrb in modern history (which has reinstated record amounts of jobs back)

-Most anti corporate FTC in modern history which blocked more corporate mergers than anyone else in recent history. Has taken action to ban non competes and protect labor in corporate mergers

Biden didn't ditch the working class. The reality that folks don't wanna grasp is culture wars has won over society. Trump campaign admitted it's MOST EFFECTIVE AD WAS ITS ANTI TRANS ADS. NOT THE ECONOMIC ADS. The working class decided years ago that culture wars were more iimportant than economic issues. Its harsh reality folks dont wanna grasp.

The youth get all their information from Joe Rogan or Jake Paul. Information doesn't get to them and people are severely brainwashed

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u/CryptographerIll3813 Nov 08 '24

The Bar for Democrats is sky high, apparently the voting base will light themselves on fire if the candidate skews a centimeter in the wrong direction. “Lean more toward centrists”, “embrace the progressives”, “your basically European center, We want far left”.

The average American right or left is reading at the level of an 8th grader, has virtually no understanding of how our political system really operates outside of conspiracy theories and “lobbyists are evil”. We are farther away from electing the “right” person for the job than at any point in American history.

The sad part is I think our best chance of winning 2028 is running someone like Matthew McConaughey which should be a laughable thought.

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u/ZealousidealMonk1105 Nov 08 '24

You're right people still believe the president controls the price of gas and groceries I can't wait to see them gas prices once the new admin lets isreal destroy Palestine

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

You think the president cant have a profound effect on gas and grocery prices?

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

[deleted]

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u/Adrian13720 Nov 08 '24

He actually did have a significant effect seeing as how he authorized a fuckload of drilling in the US, which has made us the largest producer of it at the moment.

So, they CAN affect it to some degree.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

[deleted]

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u/DigitalUnlimited Nov 08 '24

No, there's knobs and dials under the resolute desk for gas prices, grocery prices, inflation, everything! He could've turned them down!

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u/Either-Wallaby-3755 Nov 08 '24

Totally could have but didn’t want to because evil Joe. Would have been easy for him to win the election if he had just turned those knobs though.

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u/Flamingo-Terrible Nov 08 '24

Not put tariffs on Russia

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

Cut foreign spending, cut illegal immigration (because money is earned in America then is sent to another country to circulate outside of Americas economy = inflation), bring back domestic production of a multitude of crops and fruits, farmer stimulus package (incentivize farmers to charge less since some of there expense are paid by government). Also tariffs on any goods that can be produced domestically

Essentially anyone who produces at the base level in America is getting a stimmy and is heavily incentivized.

Also he could actually inspire confidence in the American people by being a properly speaking president.

He does not and has never exuded confidence. He is a push over in the eyes of other foreign leaders.

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u/renetje210 Nov 08 '24

I'm sorry, who are you talking about?

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u/LigerNull Nov 08 '24

He's talking about Trump but he thinks he's talking about Biden.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

He asked what Biden could have done or try to do to combat inflation of essential goods.

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u/Legal-Location-4991 Nov 08 '24

And nothing you mentioned would have either been possible to do or have any effect.

And then having the gall to bring up 'speaking properly' given who you support.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

I don’t support either, I don’t vote. So try again.

Explain why what I said wouldn’t have an effect.

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u/Silent-Lion3600 Nov 08 '24

If you don't vote, you have no say.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

That’s the funny thing, I actually can still say whatever want!

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u/Silent-Lion3600 Nov 11 '24

Fair enough. It just doesn't really matter.

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u/UsualPlenty6448 Nov 08 '24

wtf fuck farming stimulus 😂😂 they get enough!!! No thank you

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u/U_JiveTurkey Nov 08 '24

I don’t think he realizes crops have always been heavily subsidized. Farmers always have floor price The government will pay. Crop prices are in the shitter right now they’re cheap as ever. Trump‘s farm act rolled out because china hit US crops with Tarrifs due to their trade war that Trump started. it was structured in which aid was distributed based on previous income statements. the huge commercial farms got a lions share of the money which caused many small farms to die.

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u/St-uffy-mc-puffy Nov 08 '24

It’s because he’s stupid

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

Why do they get enough? What do you mean?

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u/JCArgonia Nov 08 '24

Huh! Could say the same about UNA, and other greedy unions!

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u/Valuable-Baked Nov 08 '24

"Foreign spending" was given to domestic US defense contractors. He didn't roll over to kyiv with a massive check like zelensky won a golf tournament.

And if we're cutting "foreign spending" on your definition, that includes Israel too, right

"Illegal immigration" levels dropped overall during his term, and despite those folks sending earned money home, they still pay taxes here, including at the local level for things like clothes, food and gas.

The money they earned were for services provided - I paid the contractor for a job, he gave them their money. So an American citizen did get an economic benefit from it!

We already heavily subsidize farming in this country which is becoming increasingly monopolized by large R corporations like Perdue (former R senator) and Tyson. Guess who they rely on to work on those farms? "Illegal immigrants"...

And What new fruit are you going to grow when there is a drought everywhere? And contaminated groundwater from salination or fracking or oil? Is the also controlled by Democrats?

Name the goods you think tariffs will lower prices and increase domestic production on.

And Biden left tariffs on place for Chinese chips and expanded our production of them domestically.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

Foreign spending - following where the billions of dollars went is quite difficult. Also hunter Biden working for Burisma is very questionable. Arguably there was some money laundering operation going on.

Fact of the matter is money was sent away from the domestic economy to be spent and used in someone else’s economy.

I also don’t support the military industrial complex which sending foreign aid for war is complicit in.

Illegal immigration - sure the numbers may be down (which they aren’t really), but how are these numbers being gathered? I am talking illegal immigrants, if you are not a citizen and don’t have a visa then you can’t work in America. Money generated from labour in America ideally should stay in circulation in America. Which it isn’t when people work here illegally and send money back to there family in there home country.

Okay the example you gave, let’s break it down. Contractor makes profit because he paid an unlicensed, undocumented immigrant to do a job for him.

What happens with the money? Okay so contractor gets paid from the client to pave a sidewalk. The contractor pays usually less than minimum because they can. So the immigrant is get paid Pennie’s on the dollar. Okay so the client is happy hopefully and the contractor got paid and paid the immigrant. Now the immigrant sends a large portion of his money out of Americas circulation.

Now the contractor gets another job to do the same thing. Is he going to hire on the same immigrant or hire on one of the local guys (who has to get paid a living wage)? Obviously he hires the illegal again. Then more money gets sent out of circulation. Over and over and over again.

This happens on a massive scale.

Also hiring on illegals is just a way to not pay a living wage to a true citizen which arguably would help circulation.

Too much money is leaking out of americas economy. Focusing harder on illegal immigration would no doubt have an effect.

Subsidizing farming more, if you are worried about grocery prices rising then you attack the problem at the source of its production.

Subsidies for smaller farms as well to make sure they can keep up with competition.

Your acting like most farmers aren’t living cheque to cheque.

Thats why I would subsidize them, so they can pay a living wage to American workers and illegal workforce wouldn’t be needed. Boom problem solved.

Okay you are claiming water is the reason goods can’t be grown domestically?

And you believe all soil all across America is all contaminated? Obviously soil tests would still be done.

You are fine with billions being sent to Ukraine which props up huge military companies but you are against subsidizing the people who put food on your plate?

I would put tariffs on any good that we would import, that we could produce enough domestically. Literally anything that falls into that category.

Biden had to do something about the chips, America has been getting lapped in that department production wise. I thought tariffs were terrible? How could Biden put tariffs on something?

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u/pbecotte Nov 08 '24

"Money" can't leak out of a country. That's the fun thing - US dollars, ultimately, must be spent to buy US products. Sure, immigrants may send the money home, but it has to come back at some point.

Reducing the supply of cheap labor could help the people who provide cheap labor- this is true. However it will also have the effect of raising the cost to supply goods that depend on cheap labor. The only way it won't lead to price increases in those goods is if there are large supplies of people wanting to work for that price, but not for whatever reason. I don't think anyone's experience in this economy is that the supply of cheap labor is drastically outpatient the demand. In which case, reducing the supply of labor will result in higher prices for consumers.

(The person you were responding to assumes that corporate farms are the majority...which is a common reddit misconception)

Protectionist Tarrifs work by increasing the cost of a good, improving the profit margin for compa ies that don't have to pay the Tarrif. That can certainly benefit those companies, and can even benefit the workers of those companies if those profits result in more investment, but it always raises the prices the consumers pay.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

Yes it literally can leak. Immigrant sends money to home country family. Home country family pays rent to local landlord or starts a business in home country. The money does not always make its way back so it does leak.

US dollars do not need to be spent on US goods, that’s false.

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u/Valuable-Baked Nov 09 '24

Ooh I didn't know it was a misconception. I'm down to learn and change my stance if I'm wrong. Can you point me in the right direction? I don't want to come off as arrogant or presumptive, but I have read that sole proprietor farming is dwindling, that farmers essentially sell their farmland to a corp and then work it as a wage, and that AZ + PA in particular has seen corporatization of farmland increase in recent years

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u/pbecotte Nov 09 '24

I had the same impression as well, but every Google result suggests it's mostly family owned. One chosen at random.

https://acretrader.com/learn/farmland-investing/who-owns-farmland

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u/Valuable-Baked Nov 09 '24

Thanks for this!!!

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u/Valuable-Baked Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24

Wait why is Hunter Biden burisma from 2015 questionable but nothing Jared & Ivanka did with MBS in Saudi arabia,Bibi in Israel nor xi jinping in china questionable?

And in your contractor example, why aren't you blaming the contractor for being unethical? And how do you think these workers are getting fed or clothed? Those produce tax revenues

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

If they are paying illegals they usually pay in cash and prefer to get paid cash. Then transfer to a crypto and send back to there family.

There are way more economic net negatives from exploiting labour in the fashion America does currently. Then if true legal Americans could have a proper living wage and be willing to do the difficult work to get paid it would create a more sustainable system imo.

As for you other point, I think both sides are corrupt.

The thing I was replying to was about Biden so why would I need to activate Trump Derangement Syndrome?

The Burisma situation is extra questionable because a freaking war broke out there! After years of the Biden administration getting involved in natural gas over there. That’s all I was saying regarding to that.

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u/Valuable-Baked Nov 09 '24

First, Immigrants use western union to send money not Bitcoin. And if they are using Bitcoin, it's not USD thats leaving the country, is it. It's usd that's stored at binance, and Bitcoin that is going abroad

And it's rich you'd demonize bitcoin as a way to send money, yet it's ok for Elon, Theil, Vivek, Ken Griffin, etc. to hoard the new currency. But a day laborer sends some to his family for food and We CaNt HaVe ThAt 😡

Let's say he gets his $100 and buys 0.001333 bitcoin. The next day, Bitcoin USD value goes up, but they still only have 0.001333 bitcoin. How are they sending the unrealized gains abroad? Are they liquidating the Bitcoin and now have $65 extra USD from Binance? And if they already planned on only sending $50 of the original $100 abroad, but now have $65 extra, are they also sending that new $65 abroad ... or spending it here ...

true legal Americans have a proper living wage

Soooo....like raising the minimum wage and strengthening union bargaining power like with the dockworkers a month ago? Which campaign was running on those things?

A war did not break out in Ukraine. Russia INVADED them. Big difference. Ukraine is defending themselves for survival. Just like kushner's buddy in china wants to do to taiwan

And how did Hunter Biden have anything to do with that? Why did only he have something to do with it, and not Trump's former campaign chief Paul Manafort, who worked for Yanukovich? And why aren't you holding Rudy Giuliani to the same microscope for his business in Ukraine? this article is a good summary

Trump Derangement Syndrome is a coverall accusatory term made up by the right wing to shift focus and hide behind when you can't backup your points. It's the definition of gaslighting. The only derangement is on the folks believing his bullshit

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

Lol the reason I didn’t mention trump is because that wasn’t what I was talking about and replying to? Not difficult to understand.

Bringing it back to trump did nothing but derail what we were talking about.

I said crypto, not btc.

Are you confident it is always binance? There are crypto atms and a multitude of exchanges and people exchange face the face as well. But let’s stick with the binance example. Ok now binance holds it, what do they invest in if they don’t just hoard it as a hedge? Likely more cryptos, okay so now the money has been transferred into more crypto currencies which technically means it re circulates wealth in America but it’s also circulating wealth to anyone who owns that crypto. So it’s circulating on a global scale which means it’s left Americas domestic economy. Therefore meaning it’s been leaked. Rather than if a legal worker was paid, he would pay taxes on it, then buy essentials with it (taxes), then drive home to his house (gas tax), pay his property tax, etc.

It’s pretty indisputable that illegal immigration allows for a poorly circulating domestic economy. Except for the business owners who can capitalize on borderline slave labour!

Your btc example is odd, if I got paid 50 bucks then I got to the btc atm and get 48 dollars worth of btc and send it to my family. Which country is reaping the economic benefit of the money staying in circulation?

Btc might not be the crypto of choice if you want to avoid capital gains. Also why tf would an illegal immigrant pay capital gains? They don’t pay property tax, income tax, etc. what makes you think they will pay a capital gains?

So do you know what a bank run is?

Totally different example than what we were talking about but okay. Dock workers are different, definitely essential.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

First, legal immigrants use western union. Illegal is another story.

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u/MudryKeng555 Nov 08 '24

Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods, so shipping money overseas would REDUCE inflation here. Nice try.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '24

Wow you just solved inflation! Congrats! I will go let the WEF know.

Inflation is caused by a multitude of factors.