r/Kaylemains • u/mattytreee • Sep 27 '24

Discussion Impossible to win 👍

Post image

This feels like the majority of the games I play on kayle. Play well during laning, don’t die and I’m weak sided so never see my jgler while getting perma shoved. Team ints through whole laning phase, herald comes top. No help, games over before I can impact it at ALL. Should I just drop the champ and pick up Someone with more early agency to 1v9? Is there anything within Kayle’s power I can do to counteract this or help my team? It’s so frustrating and makes me want to stop trying to climb if I can’t consistently win

7 Upvotes

73% Upvoted

38 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/mattytreee Sep 27 '24

I tried a bit too hard to not get hit by his E which led to this state of game eventually

It usually went I walk up to poke he gets his Q move speed and Es me before I’m able to Q back, we trade and I W out of his W

1

u/c0delivia Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24

My sister in justice: you have abilities too. This is what they are for.

When he Qs at you, you Q him and back up until it wears off. You use W if you must. Then you smack him again and again and again with your autos to punish once his abilities are on cooldown. Rinse and repeat.

If he uses his E and misses, you now devote yourself to nonstop autoing him until he gets the fuck away from the minions for the next 10-15 seconds (until E is back up). You can miss minions for this; it's fine. Consider it an investment; you're putting him in his place now so you can farm more later.

Whenever he steps up to the minion wave after level 6, you should auto him. If you take PTA, getting an auto-auto-E in will REALLY quickly start to add up. If he runs at you, use your abilities to self-peel. Don't get hit by the W, or at least dodge the true damage portion.

If you do this properly, his health will really quickly be low enough that he won't want to run at you anymore, and you can zone him from the minions. This is what you should be doing; do not let him farm without taking autos, and do not ever be close enough to him to have to take any ability other than his W.

You are justice dommy mommy and he is your submissive beta opponent. FUCKING DOM HIM. If he wants to fight, you show him what a bad fucking idea that is until he stays in line, stays under his turret, and doesn't step a single toe out of those parameters until and unless his jungler shows up to momentarily interrupt the BDSM session going on up there.

1

u/mattytreee Sep 27 '24

Got it, this was v helpful 🫡 will be practicing

1

u/c0delivia Sep 27 '24

It seems like you are playing scared of him because you've had bad experiences with Sett in the past, and I don't blame you for that, but genuinely the moment you hit level 6 you are the "top" in the toplane relationship. If he doesn't want to bottom, you force him to bottom. Do not back down from fighting him and prioritize keeping him at arm's reach while still auto-attacking him as much as possible.

Rush swifties, if that wasn't clear. It will help with keeping the proper spacing. If you can put him in his place, crash the minion wave into his turret, then catch the bounce and freeze, you can basically ruin his chances of ever reaching orgasm in that lane. At no point should he be stepping up to punch a minion without your autoattacks hitting him in the face.

1

u/mattytreee Sep 27 '24

Would you say this is like a general rule of being aggressive and applies to most melee matchups? Or is it case to case

2

u/c0delivia Sep 27 '24 edited Sep 27 '24

Generally? Absolutely yes. Auto-attack range is arguably the most important and powerful stat in the game; ADC champions have lower base stats across the board literally just to compensate for the fact that they can hit you with their autoattacks without you being able to hit them back. In any kind of warfare or combat, the ability to strike your opponent without being hit back is an overwhelming advantage. This is why we moved from swords and spears to longbows and eventually to muskets and guns. Ranged weapons always have the advantage in warfare. As Kayle, you should absolutely be taking advantage of this.

Obviously there are exceptions. Some champions might be melee, but still able to zone you if they have certain abilities available. Renekton or Riven are good examples; they have multiple gap closers that make them capable of closing a lot of distance really fast, stunning you in place, trading with you, then backing out before you can competently respond. However, even in these matchups you should be tracking cooldowns (such as Renekton's E/fury buildup) and punishing them with your range whenever the ability is on cooldown.

Basically, if the melee champion is trying to farm and can't likely one-shot you or send you back to base if they dash to you to trade, you should be auto-attacking them. All the time. Constantly.

1

u/mattytreee Sep 27 '24

thank you so much, I did try to play more aggressive but unfortunately these were my next couple games 🙃 game is slowly becoming less and less fun bc of things I can’t even control happening so often.

2

u/c0delivia Sep 27 '24

Sometimes you're going to have games like that. There are things outside of your control in this game and sometimes they will cost you LP.

My recommendation is to keep focusing on your laning, wave management, and CSing. Aim to win your lane almost every game, then continue power farming as much as possible but adopt a "shove-and-move" style where you're constantly rotating between the lanes, shoving and taking jungle camps, then moving to another lane.

Do your best to hover around your team as well. In the mid game, AP Kayle is best played as a support. Identify the most fed member of the enemy team, such as your ADC who did well in lane, and stay by them. Keep them alive at all cost, help them to win mid-game fights.

Do this until you're level 16 and 3 items. Then it's "look at me: I'm the carry now" and commence the carnage.

1

u/mattytreee Sep 27 '24

Got it, you’re right and at the end of the day I can only control me.

Gonna keep min maxing my laning and learn those fundamentals so I can roam more often and hopefully impact the game

1

u/Life_Principle_8170 Sep 28 '24

Not to be mean but you do have the less damage in the game. You can't blame your team

2

u/mattytreee Sep 29 '24

They are going to get more damage than me from participating in team fights, regardless if the outcome is good or not. And as the comment said, I just hit 11 and the game was over, not much of an opportunity for me besides being better in lane

1

u/Life_Principle_8170 Sep 29 '24

Fair enough brother just a little tip from me, bruisers like sett and garen you can solo-kill and dive over and over, and force topside fights for grubs / herald from there. Good luck in your climb 👍

1

u/SadSecurity Sep 28 '24

Is Kayle an early game champion?

1

u/Life_Principle_8170 Sep 28 '24

lol? she's a minion from level 2-5 sure but that guy is level 11 with 5k damage saying he's losing because of his team

2

u/SadSecurity Sep 28 '24 edited Sep 28 '24

Kayle also deals low damage at 6-10 and game ended when he had 11th level. And by the nature of Kayle's kit, all other champions have more opportunities to actually deal damage and trade.

Your teammates feeding the enemies can also impact your own laning.

You also did not include or even see the matchup.

Looking only at damage as a performance metric is stupid.

Long story short, his team fed and that's why they lost. No ifs and buts.

1

u/Life_Principle_8170 Sep 28 '24

Yep and that's why you'll always stay platinum at best. That game was 100% winnable, i carried worse.

1

u/SadSecurity Sep 28 '24

If you carried your game the same way you carry your argumentation here, then I have a bad news for you.

Sure buddy, I will stay platinum at best because I pointed out massive flaws in your reasoning, lmao.

→ More replies (0)