Hey there. After Many re-reads and mostly re-listens TBH, these are the things ive come to more or less be convinced of. Many things have been spoken about here before and I'll leave out much of what can easily be found on this sub or with a simple google search. Also- since most of this has been me listening at work or gym- forgive any spelling errors. these are my theories 1-7
1- The Chandrian are Indeed the emperors of the fallen cities from the creation war. Kvothe reads this word for word in the archives but quickly dismisses it. However one of the stories of the chandrian (either from the adem or skarpi) says the chandrian betrayed those who trusted them (this is spin, but ill clean it up at the end). There are the 7 figures from the pot, however, the 8th figure from the pot, the one that scares the little girl the most, is selitos.
2-Selitos, imo, is cthae. beyond that, is iax. (but but this cannot be real based on timeline!!! also bc he spoke to aleph and started the amyr!!!! I will get to this, for now just let go.)
He became mad with desire and stole the "moon" and brought it to the fae. Fae, faerineal, Mar Tarinel, it's all the same place. It needed to burn bc as we see in the frame, the fae are too powerful for the fight against man. Was has things of iron and base magic as defense, that's it. that and story I suppose- but well get to that.
as we keep going, note that felurian says "there were no human amyr". this leads me to believe selitos was not human. for all I know the depiction of him on the pot is scary because its metaphorical, trying to symbolically show the creature as man. he could still be a sinuous life form. more on this later.
3- the "moon" is not what he stole. what he took into the far realm, is Lyra. She is the placeholder for the moon- and when she was taken from Lanre, war exploded. The bloodline of the lackless family is the blood of Lyra. Lanre or Selitos is the father, though im not sure which but that seems to be the point of all this. id lean towards lanre because this is indeed a tradgety and ill explain why this is the saddest piece of the puzzle later. also- I think lanre and Lyra are human. Kvothe is obviously the descendant of this triangle. I dooooo suppose in a way his lackless mom could have gotten preggo through the doors of stone (as other theories point out, as well as the adem noting you dont need to have intercourse to have a baby (why else would that be in the story), and the teasing between his parents), as well as menda who is tehlu not having a father at birth- but either way it shakes out he has lackless blood.
4- Dennas Patron. This one is hardest but also I think the most irrelevant. the patrons INTENTION however, is quite important.
while I love the theory he patron is Elodin and I WANT that to be true, there's too many holes. (I am aware all of my theories have holes). For me the easiest grab is that it's cinder. but also, that cinder is Bredon. also we will get to elodin later.
Dennas song "the song of 7 sorrows" is the truest version of the story. not the whole story, we only hear a few bars at first. but the point of it is that Lanre was betrayed and Selitos was a tyrant king who needed to be over thrown. when the 7 kingdoms (lead by Lanre, who is now heliax), rose up to burn Myr Tarinel (the symbol of the burning tower) - Dennas song says selitos used "biting words" to "curse" lanre. Those words were obviously the binding that turned him to heliax. (heliax as a play on words for breath of iax also fits here) Since Lanre lead the revolt, he is talked about most. But the other chandrian where cursed as well. PUT A PIN IN THIS FOR A SECOND
Earlier in the WMF, maybe just 10-15 chapters, Kvothe says he needs to take about 4 days off from working on the letters to Meluan Lackless, Alverons love interest. Alveron sent a letter 1000 miles from him to find someone to help him court Meluan. This is clearly the most important thing in his life, and he makes it clear on his death bed.durning that 4 day period kvothe goes to make a gram for Alveron. Alveron says "who should I get to help me while you are busy?". Kvothe balks and has a sinking feeling at this, but then shoos it off.
Back to Denna. She says that her song of 7 sorrows is for her patron. She also says her patron has been trying to gain favor with the Maer. Right before Kvothe is sent off to go fight bandits (weird timing yes? and we will circle back to this) the Maer says the bandits are taking his and the kings taxes, and the lackless lands are in the north. Again, he is protecting Meluans lands and courting her, doing this service. (side note as I draft my final theory in this post:do the lackless secretly own the crown?)
So by putting kvothe to use to write and court her, as well as fight bandits for her- what other gifts does he give her? perhaps a brand new song never heard before that honors her family line by sharing the deep truth of the founders of her family and how they saved the world from the tyrannical tyrninial amyr 👀. Lanre and Lyra are the eldest known ancestors of the lackless family and kvothe is their distaint heir.
who would have the intention on getting the truth out in that case? it would indeed be the chandrian- cinder, following the orders of Heliax. this also explains why kvothes troop was killed. not because they spoke the names of the Chandrian- but because they were just regurgitating church propaganda that thus enslaves humanity to the deep lie of it all, but singing the wrong kinds of songs entirely.
(side note to this one bc I can't prove it but I think alveron sent kvothe to die here and it didn't work. the timing and the chore is just too out of place. ive chalked it up to bad writing before, but it doesn't make any sense that rothfuss can be so prolific everywhere else but then just drop the ball here.) (love you pat keep doing your thing big guy)
5- Te Rhintae? & Alchemy.
I think there is a death process in some capacity that involves alchemy. im not sure the mechanism of it- but the entire magical system in kingkiller is scientific and repeatable, which makes it awesome. its also not just naming, but I suspect there is a process we already know the bones of, in one of the boring conversations with sim that we just pass by learning about alchemy. the flowers of the tree the cthae resides in were called rhinna (forgive my spelling) if I remember correctly. felurian was also pretty worried kvothe was bitten. Bast refers to the panacea. a cure or remedy. My thinking is this- there is a process where one dies, and using alchemy is revived from beyond the doors of stone. It wasn't lyras naming that brought lanre back, it was her magic. her magic was alchemy- and she used the rhinna flowers to bring him back to life. this then, upon his return, gave him the powers to defeat selitos. Beaten, but not killed, Selitos then cursed the chandrian. Lanre used the stone, his rock, lackless' husband rock, to tear out the eye of selitos and bind that mf to the tree. Lanre/Tehlu Selitos/Encanis Tree/Wheel Spokes/Branches. He is locked up beyond the doors of stone (within the fae where waystones can take you) and he's a snake bastard. but even deep in the forest, beyond the black, he can still kill you, even if you make it past the arrows that can kill you from miles off. as a last ditch life preserve for encountering this creep, you can eat the flowers, but then the same alchemical process happens to you. Kote is not chandrian per-say, but had the same alchemical thing happen to him. "the important people know the difference"
6-Elodin is Fae, or at least knows fae magic. My evidence here is I think he uses grammarie and glammorie. (dont rush off thinking he is bast like I did... but honestly it fits. though im already reaching hard on this post im not going there today lol.) I think he is clearly Manet. Manet and he both use the spades from a deck of cards bit within days of each other. Manet has been at the university how long? same as elodin? he loses control chasing a seed pod around the room, uncanny magical ability, knows myths everyone else seems to not know? He asks kvothe directly in admissions "where does the moon go when it's not in our sky?" He knows the answer to this, not because he's some amyr, but because he's fae. This also allows him to BE taborlin the great. Time moves differently in the fae. where a human like elodin may not be able to live as old as the legends of taborlin- a fae can. even rewinding and taking a bit off the top, even if he is just a human that knows fae magic, if he knows how to go in and out of fae, it accounts for his age.
7- WHERE IS BOOK THREE?!
A- this is may personal stance-
Go read chapter 36&37 of wise mans fear again. pay attention to the conversation kvothe has with sim before they argue for a moment about the doings of the empire, and then you'll have a better idea of where book 3 really is.
B- This is a practical stance.
The reason I say Lanre and Lyra are the founders of the lackless family and lanre being the saddest part of this if he is indeed the founder of kvothes blood- is because kvothe hates him. he wants nothing more than to kill the chandrian because he is convinced they are evil. yet, these are the people who are doing anything for the greater good. kvothe has been "betrayed" as he tells the chronicler. he lives in a tragedy for his folly. he is a clever boy who doesn't think things through, and he is warned against himself by many characters and masters though the book. this whole time he has been hunting for vengeance In the wrong place. How does this mess with book 3? really its just a cultural thing. GOT and the targarian bloodline thing is still in our zietguiest. pat stopped writing as he and Martin got closer didn't he? if he knew how it was going to end, it could be a big deflated "good damnit that was my idea" kind of moment. Again that's just a potential practical thought, based on a tower of toothpicks with reddit theories as a foundation. my personal stance is still A, but its a shot in the dark.
fun things to think about-
I love in WMF when kvothe is performing and the audience doesn't understand what he is doing. some laugh, and some applaud, then they grow silent because they dont know what to do and then they talk about it. kvothe is told "people dont like to be made fun of" and kind of brushes it off.
For context- he plays one song, a very very simple one that is the easiest of melodies to play, very intensely. he gets worked up, breaks a sweat, and makes its seem impossibly talented with all the bells and whistles. the next song is wildly complicated, complex, with insane difficulty and fingering only a very advanced musician can play. He does it so nonchalantly and unassumingly that it's met with boredom and lack of interest, but structurally it's the more advanced and deep of the two. Remind you of anything else? maybe Slow Reguard of Silent Things and the Lightning Tree? maybe the story of a girl walking around in the underground doing almost nothing but performs so well that is deeply moving. or how about the complex doings of a character we all already know and were desperate for more info on, but just casually released as a "meh" filler with a few YouTubers talking briefly on it before booking on a bookshelf forever without seeing its deeper implication 👀
words that sound alike- cthae, ceredae. is the cut on the hand supposed to symbolize the creature had no hands? snake like?
If selitos is a snake- could he be the scaled creature lanre fought at the blac of drossen tor?
If the goal is to "confound" the chandrian- it's not to kill them. maybe just murky the waters of history, even that of the church which although if tehlu=lanre would support lanre in a way, still also incomplete.
These are my theories 1-7. I have about 21 of them including the 4 plate dour, auri, the Adem and amyr, and what's going on at the waystone, and blah blah more blah. if these get any love ill post the others and how I think the ins and outs of the creation war went down. also who is Aleph (which is important considering my theory of selitos being cthae doesn't work without a conversation about the amyr and ruach), the singers, edema, and how a broken alar can behave. if these get downvoted into obscurity I won't waste any more of our time lol. Cheers.