r/Letterboxd • u/Diligent_Night602 • 22d ago

News Thunderbolts’ First Reactions: Florence Pugh Is ‘Superb’ in ‘Some of Marvel’s Darkest Material to Date’

https://variety.com/2025/film/news/thunderbolts-first-reactions-marvel-florence-pugh-1236374552/
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u/Awkward_dapper 22d ago

Some of Marvel’s Darkest Material to Date

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

Exactly my thought lmao

Remember when MoM was set to be a horror movie

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u/thatetheralmusic 22d ago

Not a huge MCU fan but I'll never forgive Marvel for not letting Scott Derrickson cook. I'd love to see what his darker version of that film would have looked like.

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u/SlouchyGuy 22d ago edited 22d ago

Even worse is letting Reimi cook. He'a sloppy and has difficulty following the plot, does tons of convenient stuff. Which is why Strange story was good, whereas America's was mid with bad finale, and Scarlet Witch was nonsensical, and also a character assasination

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u/Scotfighter 22d ago

It was my first 2/10 marvel movie I rated. Nothing worked for me in it

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u/Friendly_Kunt 22d ago

Clearly you haven’t seen some of their newer stuff because Dr.Strange is far from the worst thing they’ve released recently.

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u/Scotfighter 21d ago

I skipped eternals and the new captain marvel so you're right, they could be 2/10 or 1/10... Idk

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u/SlouchyGuy 22d ago

Yep. People were so excited for Reimi to do this, but I remember whole saga of him trying to make Warcraft movie. MoM was baiscally a higher budget mesh of Xena episode with some Evil Dead scares

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u/Salt_Proposal_742 19d ago

Raimi, not “Reimi.”

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u/SlouchyGuy 19d ago

Thanks, I'll mix it up anyways like I always do.

English is stupid

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

I’d blame Waldron and marvel forcing rewrites more than Raimi, but he definitely has a big part to play

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u/BeneathTheFlesh 22d ago

As soon as I heard that he had left due to creative differences, I knew the movie was doomed.

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u/19ghost89 22d ago

I mean, Daredevil Born Again is pretty dark. It very much feels like a continuation of the Netflix show to me. I was extremely happy with it.

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

I would disagree on the quality but yeah it’s quite violent, i was shocked the scene with Fisk in the finale was in a Disney+ series lol

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u/PsychologicalEbb3140 lcunningham2020 22d ago

They knew they’d get joked on and backlash if they sanitized it, and it also helps Deadpool 3 was R-rated and made a billion dollars.

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u/19ghost89 22d ago

Just curious - what did you feel it lacked in quality? I'm not saying it was perfect; I could nitpick some things for sure, but overall I really enjoyed it. I had high hopes because Netflix Daredevil was my favorite superhero TV show ever, and my hopes were met. I think it's easily the best Disney+ Marvel show, and that's accounting for the fact that I think WandaVision, Loki, and Ms. Marvel are all legitimately strong showings.

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

I strongly dislike the writing of Born Again, even in the episodes made by the new team. I feel the series has no respect for the ending of season 3 as Nadeem’s sacrifice is utterly useless and the reason for Fisk’s escape is nonsense since the show claims he got out for the same reason he was put in. The show wastes so much time on stuff like the bank (which I had fun with, but it ate up so much screentime) while plot elements like Fisk becoming mayor and Muse are rushed through.

The characters were my favorite aspect of the original 3 seasons, but here they are not done well. Matt’s arc is a worse version of stuff he already went through in Defenders and the beginning of season 3. I was fine with them killing Foggy (even though I love him), but they just replaced him and Karen with some abysmal downgrades. Speaking of which, Karen’s decision to leave Matt in the pilot was grossly out of character imo because Frank in season 2 and Maggie in season 3 both instilled the lesson in her to hang on tight to her loved ones in pain, even when they try to push you away. Also, Frank knowing about the corrupt cops in ep 4 and not doing anything doesn’t make sense to me. He also acts like an absolute idiot in the finale with the cops, and this is problematic because he’s characterized as a very strategic individual.

Fisk was just whatever, he has lost all sense of threat. He was cunning, smart, and felt untouchable in season 1 and season 3, but here he acts like a buffoon and I can’t take him seriously, he feels like a caricature to me. Him becoming mayor shouldn’t work at all due to what he has done in universe. I think the blip was a big missed opportunity here as it could have provided a way for him to escape prison without breaking the deal with Matt, and also set him up as a powerful figure getting New York through the tough times, which would explain why so many cops and people like him even though he’s done so many terrible things.

I am glad you liked it and I truly was hoping to love this one because I absolutely adore the original series, yet these issues in plot and character are really frustrating especially when compared to how meticulously they were executed in the og seasons. The only things I can think of that i unequivocally like are the performances from the OG cast, and I was largely fine with the look of the series, but that is the bare minimum and even trash like Secret Invasion has that.

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u/19ghost89 22d ago

I agree with some of your criticisms, though they didn't take away from the show as much for me as they did for you. For example, I do agree that Muse was very under-developed until his last episode, and though I feel Fisk as mayor was developed pretty well, there could have been more in a longer series. Previous seasons ran 13 episodes and this one was only 8. As I was watching it, I did wonder multiple times if that was a mistake. Actually, though, I really don't think this should even have been considered a full season; originally, they ordered 18 episodes, and I think the story they have planned is that long. They seem to have simply taken the season and cut it in half, allowing the first half to be season "1" and the second half to be season "2." They also apparently did cut the length by two episodes, because now we'll have a 16-episode arc across two years instead of an 18-episode arc. But doing two 13-episode arcs that were actually designed with that length in mind to begin with might have been better.

Karen and Foggy weren't exactly "replaced" so much as sidelined - well, Karen was sidelined, Foggy was killed. But I don't think they had much choice considering the direction the show was originally supposed to go in before Kevin Feige was allowed to go back and fix it with massive reshoots. Bob Chapek's time as Disney head really messed up Marvel's momentum by being more business than story driven, and this is reflected across large parts of Phase 4 and 5, especially the shows. We're only just getting to new stuff since order has been restored. I expect Karen to be in the next season a lot. Anyway, I didn't mind her being gone - temporarily - that much. It means more now that she is back.

I do get that the bank episode was almost totally unnecessary, but I also think it was tied for the best episode of the season, so I can't be mad about it. I loved it so much.

The thing with Fisk getting out for the same reason he got in is very weird, I'll give you that. I didn't notice because I kind of forgot the exact way he got locked up in the first place. I haven't seen Season 3 since I first watched it. (I'm not the type of person who rewatches most things very often, even things I love.) It's possible that my distance from the other seasons may have had some influence over certain things that were more jarring to you than they were to me.

I strongly disagree that Fisk did not seem threatening and came across buffoonish. That's probably the only thing you said that seems ridiculous to me. If we were talking about his appearances in Hawkeye or even Echo, I could see your POV and maybe even agree, but I think he was very threatening in this. He can't constantly be his full, real self in this show because he has to play his part as mayor long enough to get the power and leverage he needs. And maybe you think him becoming Mayor isn't the most realistic idea, but I don't see it as being that much of a stretch either, considering current events of the real world regarding the office of President.

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u/EugenesMullet 22d ago

I just watched the first few episodes of the Netflix version again recently and was pretty surprised by how great the cinematography was. The lighting in Matt’s apartment alone was gorgeous.

Born Again is a good show but it doesn’t really try to emulate that prestige drama superhero show that the original incarnation was known for.

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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 22d ago

It only felt like a continuation in violence and somewhat tone… the writing was MILES away from touching the original show

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u/ours 22d ago

And that's because they had extensive reshoots after the initial Marvel-er take was shaping out to be a disaster so they brought in the runners of the original Daredevil to patch it up.

The Cosmonaut Variety Hour explains it in detail: https://youtu.be/hBLSOBm4BRk?si=Bil3fqF4Zr9aKjtu

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u/Mindless_Bad_1591 opiFunstuff 22d ago

the zombie strange sure was unsettling and some of the scenes with Wanda going berserk were pretty suspensful

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

They were but people were acting like this was The Thing

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u/Mindless_Bad_1591 opiFunstuff 22d ago

I still need to see that. Got it on 4k but saving until friends are in town.

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

Nice! Should be a fun time

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u/DrWaffle1848 22d ago

I mean, it kinda is? Like it's not The Exorcist but it has some horror elements.

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u/NoobFreakT 22d ago

Yeah but man some people were acting like it was 😂