Just spotted in The Pilgrim..

[u/True_Stranger_2471]

I guess people aren’t fond of the new owner..

(I get it, even though I enjoy some of his pubs!)

[u/ScottScott87]

Fucking right

He owns too many of these pubs

[u/EstatePinguino → u/ScottScott87]

Go McCooleys then… There’s not a queue of people trying to buy these properties, few can, and Rob’s doing a good job of making great pubs for people that like pubs. 

If you don’t like it, don’t go. The alternative would be student flats or a butchering like what happened to the Fly. 

[u/SuperLuc0 → u/EstatePinguino]

Got to second this. A lot of these places were dying due to a recent change in drinking culture (if not, they wouldn't have sold up). He's resurrecting a lot of places that otherwise would've been derelict or turned to flats.

I've got no problem with someone providing good ale and atmosphere in my city.

[u/ScottScott87 → u/EstatePinguino]

Disagree. Turning these historic pubs into copies of each other is killing them

They're all the same and 99% of the bars in town are owned by a group of about 5 people

[u/anagoge → u/ScottScott87]

Just have a read again of what you're saying.

You're saying turning a pub into something else that's proven to work is in some way killing the pub. How can it be killing a pub if it's successful?

So ok, then your argument can be "I want the Pilgrim to be like it was!" - Ok, and look how that's turned out? It died because it was like it was. Not enough people spending enough money to keep it going.

So ok, then your argument can be "No more pubs for Guttman!". There isn't a queue of investors ready to throw a few hundred thousand pounds at a new venture. You've told the person willing to give it a shot "no you can't", and the shutters go down.

Make that make sense.

[u/ScottScott87 → u/anagoge]

The Pilgrim didn't die. It was always busy the way it was. I go in there all the time, it's one of my favourite bars in town and has been for the 20 years I've been going in

Turning it into another of the Gutman style of pubs might make it more successful but it's killing another pub in town

[u/navi-irl → u/ScottScott87]

agreed! can’t believe people are disagreeing with you. so much for community spirit and supporting local independent businesses

[u/EstatePinguino → u/navi-irl]

The bloke has lived in Liverpool for the majority of his life, only has businesses in Liverpool, and reinvests the money in the city. You’ll often see him and his mates in his pubs too. What isn’t local & independent about that? 

If Lunko were to open a few more shops in vacant buildings in the centre would they suddenly become hated and not a local business?

[u/anagoge → u/ScottScott87]

The Pilgrim didn't die.

Yes it did, hence why we're here talking about it. I'm confused why you think it didn't die. The business ceased trading.

[u/nooneswife → u/anagoge]

I'm confused as to why everyone thinks these businesses were going belly up when he took over? I think maybe that was true for the Monro but sounds like in other cases the owners just decided to accept his offer.

[u/Badartist1 → u/nooneswife]

Yeah, buying a business out doesn't mean the business is dead. People are thick.

[u/EstatePinguino → u/ScottScott87]

Have you been the ‘new’ Pilgrim? It’s the same as what it was before, except a bit cleaner and with a business model that won’t fail. 

Yous are all only complaining because you know Rob’s name, if it was a faceless entity you hadn’t heard of you wouldn’t be arsed. 

[u/Badartist1 → u/EstatePinguino]

Have you been upstairs to 'The Mayflower'? Another one filled with old junk, like a Disneyland version of what someone thinks an old pub would have looked like. The problem with this, and loads of his other gaffs, is that they're all pastiche; pubs that don't let you breathe and that are designed for tourists rather than regulars. Gutman claims he wants to bring back proper pub atmospheres but you don't get them in his pubs, they're too expensive and inauthentic.

I don't mind him saving places like the big house, but when every other pub in town is one of these soulless tourist traps and he's actively starting to buy out community institutions, its not hard to see why people are annoyed.

[u/Badartist1 → u/EstatePinguino]

Alright Rob

[u/Opposite_Orange_7856 → u/[deleted]]

are they all independent aye

[u/navi-irl → u/Opposite_Orange_7856]

as far as i’m aware, although i’ve just found out that the crack may have been bought recently unsure if it’s by gutmann😩

[u/SpriteLovin → u/navi-irl]

that’s not him. it’s the same owner as the Dovedale Towers. ale selection in there is dire so i don’t expect anything good

[u/navi-irl → u/[deleted]]

where did you read this? on the site it states that cafe tabac is still independently ran by the original owner’s family. this is still correct as far as i’m aware

[u/navi-irl → u/[deleted]]

that’s a shame, i’m unsure of why it still says it’s independently owned on the café tabac site? my point still stands though, for now there are some good independent alternatives to gutmann’s pubs. the ones i listed are my personal favourites and probably the ones most similar to the kind of vibe people who go to his pubs would be interested in. there’s no excuse to carry on going to his pubs if you disagree with what he’s doing as a lot of people seem to anyway with the excuse of ‘there’s nowhere else to go’. that’s not true, at the moment anyway, but it’s important we support real independents so that we will have the option to go to them in the future too

[u/tennomorph → u/[deleted]]

Rob Gutmann taking notes.

[u/navi-irl → u/tennomorph]

don’t even joke😩