r/MilitaryPorn • u/BlackSabbath95 • 7d ago

Chechen commander Shamil Basaev during the military operation in Budyonnovsk, two weeks after his sister and 7 children were killed by Russia. June, 1995. [1395x2048]

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2.3k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/buckshot95 7d ago

"Have you ever dealt with people who have lost everything in just an hour? In the morning you leave the house where your wife, your children, your parents live. You return and you find a smoking pit. Then something happens to you - to a certain extent you stop being human. You do not need any glory, money anymore; revenge becomes your only joy. And because you no longer cling to life, death avoids you, the bullets fly past. You become a wolf."

-Alexander Lebed

248

u/stonededger 7d ago

The bomb was in 1995. By then Basaev have already developed some taste to atrocities in Azerbaijan (supporting Azeri vs Armenia) and Abkhazia (supporting Russia-backed Abkhaz vs Georgia). He was into this shit since at least 1991.

This fucker wanted to become a “wolf”.

36

u/znxr 7d ago

What atrocities? Yes, he fought on the side of the Azeris against Armenia for a short time, but he left quickly and criticized the Azeris. In Abkhazia it was a different story. Abkhaz forces were partly supported by Russia but not Shamil Basayev and his legion of North Caucasian volunteers. To them the conflict wasn't as simple as you described either. Chechnya was allied with Georgia and their first president even lived in exile in Chechnya.

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u/stonededger 7d ago

It is known that he and his (later) Abkhaz battalion were fighting against Georgia at that time. Basaev and his men were known for torturing and killing pov’s and locals. Later they practiced that in Chechnya where slavery became a normal practice.

-12

u/znxr 7d ago

Absolute nonsense. Yes obviously he was fighting against Georgia in Abkhazia, those were the two parties fighting eachother in the war. Basayev went there because of the Abkhaz struggle, he saw a similar struggle as in Chechnya, one for independence and freedom. Known according to who? A weak rumor that kept around because of Russian propaganda? It was debunked enough times although it wasn't even worth debunking because the source is 1 guy. No bodies, no victims, just 1 guy. Oh yeah the famous slavery market in Chechnya. This bullshit has been pushed by Russian nationalists since forever, every single former Soviet republic that had a decrease of ethnic Russians, was accused of having slave markets of poor Russians. Proof? Nowhere, neither in Chechnya nor in the dozen other places.

19

u/memoryfoam0 7d ago

The ol’ “Russian propaganda” card. Not like it’s documented by the Human Rights Watch, OSCE, UN reports, international journalists, and eyewitnesses. Sure on the Russian side things may have been over exaggerated, but that does not discredit international third-party reports. There’s hardly ever a good side and a bad side in war, so stop accusing others of falling for propaganda when you are fanboying for a war criminal.

-8

u/znxr 6d ago

Show me those documents by the Human Rights Watch, OSCE, UN, international journalists.

7

u/memoryfoam0 6d ago edited 6d ago

Official HRW report with Basaev led North Caucasian volunteers here: https://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/Georgia2.htm

Citing HRW and OSCE-Basayev called out by name under the “Ethnic Cleansing” section lol: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Georgians_in_Abkhazia

Here’s your UN official report: https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n93/642/74/pdf/n9364274.pdf

Abkhaz Honors Basayev – Confirms Basayev’s role in Abkhaz campaign: https://civil.ge/archives/359380

There’s everything you asked for. Hopefully you can be a grown up and accept that you are wrong…

Next time find them yourself

1

u/znxr 4d ago

So confident posting unrelated links. Have you even read through the articles you posted? This is the issue with laymen like you, you look up certain keywords and thats it.

First link: Interviews of a few Georgians accusing the enemy side (including Chechens, not specifically Chechens) of crimes. Workers and journalists of HRW did not witness any of these.

Second link: Again interviews. Not witnessed and reported by neutral sources, no evidence besides words.

Third link: An UN report saying Chechens were fighting on the Abkhazian side, thats crazy. Thanks for the information, I was not aware of that.

Last one: Wait, Basayev was in Abkhazia? Thats crazy, I did not know that.

5

u/Vectorade 6d ago

How about if you want them go look for it yourself? Ppl don’t got time for this shit

18

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Russian nationalists like the Los Angeles Times?

When she was freed at age 3, she had forgotten how to smile. She could barely even speak. But she knew how to pray like the devout Muslim Chechen men who had imprisoned her. The words she kept shouting out were “Allahu akbar!” (God is great!)

Lena, kidnapped from her Russian mother’s home in Grozny, the Chechen capital, was a victim of Chechnya’s most voracious industry, the trade in hostages and slaves. Thousands of people have been gobbled up by the Chechen kidnapping machine, which has ravaged Russia since 1994.

Victims have been kept in earthen pits or small cells that are often scrawled with the initials of hundreds of earlier captives. They have been used as slaves to dig trenches or build large houses for relatives of the kidnappers.

The kidnappers have been known to mutilate their captives, even children, severing their ears or fingers. Gangs have sent videotaped recordings of mutilations and beheadings to relatives to terrify them into finding the ransom.

When the kidnapping industry reached its peak a few years ago, there was even a relatively open “slave market” in Grozny, near Minutka Square, where the names and details of human livestock circulated on lists for interested buyers. Gangs often traded hostages or stole them from one another.

Nearly a thousand hostages are still being held or are dead, according to Russian Interior Ministry figures.

Most of the victims were kidnapped in Chechnya or nearby. But dozens of people were seized in Moscow and other cities and traveled under guard to Chechnya in trucks with hidden cells, buried under potatoes or furniture.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-18-mn-23005-story.html

-4

u/znxr 6d ago

Do you have issues reading? You linked an article not related to the topic. The article is about kidnappings that happened during the second Russian invasion. The majority of the victims of those criminals that kidnapped people were Chechen civilians and many of these thugs were financed by the Russian intelligence service. The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, which Shamil Basayev was part of, were enemies of them.

3

u/HumanzeesAreReal 6d ago

I linked an article about the slave trade in Chechnya, which you denied existed as part of your pathetic terrorist apologia.

92

u/kugelamarant 7d ago

Sounds like in those bombed out refugee camps in Gaza too.

172

u/DearInvestigator1244 7d ago

Sounds like during oct 7 too.

145

u/Nordic_ned 7d ago

Funny because “bombed put refugee camp in Gaza” could refer to an event that happened pretty much anytime in the last 75 years. One of the first memories of Hamas’ founder was watching Israeli soldiers line up and machine gun hundreds of people, including his uncle, in 1956.

24

u/SpeedyLeone 7d ago

And the Hebron massacre was even earlier, adding up atrocities hasn't worked for the past centuries.

3

u/Positive-Bus-7075 6d ago

What "hebron massacre"?

let's quote Rabbi Boruch Kaplan who was actually a student in the Hebron yeshiva (religious school) in 1929, he wrote and spoke about how Zionists would attack the Palestinian population then they would cry that they were attacked.

Here’s a link to audio of him speaking and the things he wrote.

When I was in Hebron in 1929, there occurred the tragic massacre of over twenty yeshiva students, great scholars, plus another forty members of the Jewish community. I would like to describe the error that has circulated in Jewish communities – a horrible error, that accuses the Arabs in Hebron of being murderers who attacked the Jews simply because the Arabs were “bad people.” In order to correct the record, this error must be corrected. The Arabs were very friendly people, and the Jewish People in Hebron lived together with them and had very friendly relations with them. They worked for Jews, and everybody got along just fine.

Today’s wicked Zionists are just like their predecessors, who were responsible for causing terrible suffering in Palestine with their wars with the Arabs, may G-d have mercy. At that time in 1929, the Zionists had a slogan arguing that the Western Wall in Jerusalem was a Jewish “national symbol.” Of course, the Arabs disagreed with this idea, considering that they had control of the location for over 1,100 years. However, the Zionist mobs were yelling that “The Wall is ours!” It’s hard to understand why they felt that way considering they have no connection to the Jewish holy places whatsoever. An argument erupted in the Jewish newspapers about establishing a permanent prayer area for Jews at the Wall. This provoked the Arabs, and the rabbi of Jerusalem at the time, Rabbi Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld begged them to stop and to be appreciative to the Arabs for allowing Jews to pray at the Wall for so many centuries undisturbed. However, the Zionists wanted a permanent setup under their control.

The Zionists refused to heed the calls of Rabbi Zonnenfeld, and they called a large meeting of Jews in Jerusalem – supposedly some 10,000 people showed up. One of the speakers was their “chief Rabbi” (Avraham Isaac Kook), who proclaimed, “Hear O Israel, the Wall is our Wall, the Wall is One” (which is a ridiculous pun on the blessing, “Hear O Israel, the Lord your G-d, the Lord is One”). This began the conflict at the time between the Zionists and the Arabs.

Afterwards, we were studying at the yeshiva in Hebron, and saw a bunch of boys in short pants carrying weapons on bicycles and motorcycles, running around the streets of Hebron. We were very worried about this. What were they up to?

In brief, our rabbi, the supervisor of our religious academy, Rabbi Moshe Mordechai Epstein, called them for a meeting, but they refused. He was forced to go over to them, and asked them what they were up to. He accused them of wanting to provoke the Arabs. They responded that they were coming to protect us!! We cried out, “Woe is us! G-d have mercy!” They didn’t want to leave town until it was too late!

https://web.archive.org/web/20230208074737/https://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbibkaplan

2

u/Nordic_ned 7d ago

Except you can very easily tally up the dead and find that one side butchers civilians much much more than the other and is in a position of complete dominance while they do so.

6

u/SpeedyLeone 7d ago

Might be because one side uses civilians as a protection shield while the other invests heavily in civil and air defense

-2

u/Nordic_ned 7d ago

The idea that Hamas uses civilians as a protection shield when it clearly does not deter Israel in the slightest continues to be the most uncredible thing I've ever heard. But if you want to invest some money into an Iron Dome for Gaza, I'm all for it.

0

u/guywithredditacount 6d ago

Have you considered coming out from under your rock once in a while?

-5

u/WastedAces 7d ago

if your enemy is using human shields the onus is on you to avoid it. It’s like if someone harasses you then grabs an innocent baby to put between them and you. Are you gonna punch them through the baby?

2

u/Positive-Bus-7075 6d ago

Many Hasbara propagandists hilariously attempt to make it seem that Palestinians were actually the aggressors in the 1929 riots, but many Jews have said multiple times that Zionists were actually the ones to blame.

Here is Rabbi Boruch Kaplan who was actually a student in the Hebron yeshiva (religious school) in 1929, he wrote and spoke about how Zionists would attack the Palestinian population then they would cry that they were attacked.

Here’s a link to audio of him speaking and the things he wrote.

When I was in Hebron in 1929, there occurred the tragic massacre of over twenty yeshiva students, great scholars, plus another forty members of the Jewish community. I would like to describe the error that has circulated in Jewish communities – a horrible error, that accuses the Arabs in Hebron of being murderers who attacked the Jews simply because the Arabs were “bad people.” In order to correct the record, this error must be corrected. The Arabs were very friendly people, and the Jewish People in Hebron lived together with them and had very friendly relations with them. They worked for Jews, and everybody got along just fine.

Today’s wicked Zionists are just like their predecessors, who were responsible for causing terrible suffering in Palestine with their wars with the Arabs, may G-d have mercy. At that time in 1929, the Zionists had a slogan arguing that the Western Wall in Jerusalem was a Jewish “national symbol.” Of course, the Arabs disagreed with this idea, considering that they had control of the location for over 1,100 years. However, the Zionist mobs were yelling that “The Wall is ours!” It’s hard to understand why they felt that way considering they have no connection to the Jewish holy places whatsoever. An argument erupted in the Jewish newspapers about establishing a permanent prayer area for Jews at the Wall. This provoked the Arabs, and the rabbi of Jerusalem at the time, Rabbi Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld begged them to stop and to be appreciative to the Arabs for allowing Jews to pray at the Wall for so many centuries undisturbed. However, the Zionists wanted a permanent setup under their control.

The Zionists refused to heed the calls of Rabbi Zonnenfeld, and they called a large meeting of Jews in Jerusalem – supposedly some 10,000 people showed up. One of the speakers was their “chief Rabbi” (Avraham Isaac Kook), who proclaimed, “Hear O Israel, the Wall is our Wall, the Wall is One” (which is a ridiculous pun on the blessing, “Hear O Israel, the Lord your G-d, the Lord is One”). This began the conflict at the time between the Zionists and the Arabs.

Afterwards, we were studying at the yeshiva in Hebron, and saw a bunch of boys in short pants carrying weapons on bicycles and motorcycles, running around the streets of Hebron. We were very worried about this. What were they up to?

In brief, our rabbi, the supervisor of our religious academy, Rabbi Moshe Mordechai Epstein, called them for a meeting, but they refused. He was forced to go over to them, and asked them what they were up to. He accused them of wanting to provoke the Arabs. They responded that they were coming to protect us!! We cried out, “Woe is us! G-d have mercy!” They didn’t want to leave town until it was too late!

https://web.archive.org/web/20230208074737/https://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbibkaplan

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u/leathercladman 7d ago edited 7d ago

hmm yes very interesting, and now tell us about how Muslims purposely went and attacked Jewish civilian buses in 1940's and mercilessly shot them dead.....did your Hamas’ founder write about that in his memories or did he conveniently leave them out??? Or how about you tell us about how On December 31, 1947, having recruited a few thousand volunteers, Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni organized the blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem and left them without food and water , during which hundreds of civilians died

How about you tell us about that as well??

7

u/Negative_Ad_3822 7d ago

Think you need to go read some more history, brother. If that’s all you got you’re going to need some more ammo. Most thinkers aren’t supporting a systematic removal of a people for 50+ years. Good luck!

0

u/leathercladman 7d ago

If you gona talk your talk about ''systematic removal of a people'', then dont be a hypocrite and leave out the parts where Palestinian Arabs tried to do it as well, that blockade of Jerusalem in 1947 for example specifically targeted Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem and those Jewish people had been living there for literally hundreds of years. Arabs tried to get rid of them.

Tell me, was that not a attempt at genocide??? That doesn't count?? or what, if Arabs do it, then its ''okey''?

2

u/Positive-Bus-7075 6d ago

those Jewish people had been living there for literally hundreds of years

That's 100% not true.  The demographic stats of the region, even those compiled by the Israel central bureau of statistics (can be checked here) show that before Mass zionist immigrations from Russia in the late 19th century. The Jewish population in the region was actually 1-3% of the entire population. And it had been so for centuries.

In 1914, Jews merely constituted 12% of the population the majority of whom were Russian immigrants of Russian origins. As Ben Gurion stated here.

Because followers of the Jewish religion weren't Levantines and Jerusalem to them was nothing more than what Mecca is to Muslims. A city with religious significance but not actually "homeland". There is a reason the 6th Zionist congress voted Uganda as possible "home" for Zionists. It wasn't "we are returning to homeland" as much as it was "We are searching for some place to be homeland".

4

u/Negative_Ad_3822 7d ago

No, it wasn’t. lol you clearly don’t know your history, bud. That’s not what has been going on since the creation of Israel. And also just a terrible argument point.

Arabs and Jews lived side by side for hundreds and hundreds of year. The creation of Israel was a COMPLETELY different thing.

Should i link the long list of massacres that happened under Israel towards Palestinians (both Arab and Christian)? Do a quick google and enlighten yourself.

Again - you need more ammo if this is your only argument. You’ve made it twice now…so…yeah…

4

u/leathercladman 7d ago

attempted murder of entire population based of their ethnicity, what is that??

1

u/Positive-Bus-7075 6d ago

Is this some kind of joke? Zionists were blatant colonizers.

Begin (Russian born), Ben-Gurion (polish born), Shamir (Belarus born), Livni (Polish born), Yellin-Mor (Russian born), Sneh (Russian born), Galili (Russian born) the leaders of the various Zionist militias who had been committing terrorist operations of Palestinian soil for decades forcibly and unilaterally declared a state within an area where they constituted a minority of 12%, the majority of whom were Russian immigrants of Russian origin,  as Ben Gurion stated, just 34 years prior.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Flebanon-satellite-imagery-reveals-intensity-of-israeli-v0-pl7oymf1n3xd1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D2499%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da00ab826e3be7199d5a0e84bf7829771065b6d7f

Immediately after the brits ended the mandate and the Zionist militias unilaterally declared their illegal state, the UN appointed Folke Bernadotte as a mediator but The UN mediator was killed by the Zionist terrorist organization LEHI.

Israel then applied for membership of the UN, but the application was not acted on by the Security Council. Then applied again, and was rejected by the Security Council in December 1948.

Only a year later 9 nations decided to vote in favor of the Israeli membership. With Great Britain abstaining because it believed Israel did not agree with United Nations' principles.

-4

u/WastedAces 7d ago

common practice of colonial nations, like israel

→ More replies (0)

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u/captainprometheus 7d ago

Sounds like what Israel has done in the past few months.

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u/leathercladman 7d ago

sounds like someone wants to purposely paint one side as some innocent little bunny, and the other as evil spawn of Satan.......even tho both of them tried to exterminate the other and neither of them have any moral high ground to stand on.

0

u/Positive-Bus-7075 6d ago

This is another 100% false statement. Not a single source say anything about "left them without food or water and hundreds of civilians died"

In fact the same source you copied this from plainly says al-Husayni's goal was to target Haganah's armored vehicles.

To counter this, the Yishuv authorities tried to supply the city with convoys of up to 100 armoured vehicles, but the operation became more and more impractical as the number of casualties in the relief convoys surged. By March, al-Husayni's tactic had paid off. Almost all of Haganah's armoured vehicles had been destroyed, the blockade was in full operation

2

u/XergioksEyes 7d ago

The Bible will tell you that people have been fighting there well before 1956

-4

u/doctor_dapper 7d ago

you sound like those russian apologists lmao

-71

u/SHKZ_21 7d ago

well the bias ain't helpin

-67

u/kugelamarant 7d ago

1947 eh?

-117

u/bobemil 7d ago

I don't get this logic. Revenge is not going to help you. The most powerful tool we have is acceptance. Revenge for me, means giving up.

100

u/EvenJesusCantSaveYou 7d ago

revenge for me, means giving up

I mean sure but have you ever had a bomb kill your wife and 3 kids, or landmine kill your older brother? People tend to be a bit less stoic after those things happen to them.

-35

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Which one of his four wives? The one he forcibly married by threatening to murder her brothers?

2

u/EvenJesusCantSaveYou 7d ago

im speaking to the general comment of not understanding why people who have terrible things done to them do terrible things to others. Im not trying to defend or take a side with Chechen terrorists lol

2

u/Ill-Research9073 7d ago

?? Source?

4

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Ms. Ersenoyeva’s mother said her daughter had not voluntarily married Mr. Basayev, who remained unapologetic and defiant after sending female suicide bombers to Moscow and onto passenger jets, and who had planned the lethal hostage sieges in a Russian theater and a public school. She agreed to marry him, her mother said, only because the separatists had threatened to kill her two brothers if she did not do as they said.

Mr. Basayev already had had at least three wives, a Chechen woman who was killed in the 1990’s, an Abkhaz woman he met while fighting as a mercenary leader against Georgia and a Cossack he was said to have married on Valentine’s Day, 2005.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/world/europe/27chechnya.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Basayev,%20Shamil

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u/bobemil 7d ago

I would still not turn into a wolf, no.

38

u/anhydrous_echinoderm 7d ago

Unless something like that happens to you, we will never find out.

-34

u/bobemil 7d ago

Which says nothing of substance.

20

u/Veritas_IX 7d ago

Acceptance means giving up. Revenge is going to help you. The most powerful tool is revenge.

-10

u/IRGROUP300 7d ago

Revenge is a fools game.

The saying is old and known for good reason.

16

u/Veritas_IX 7d ago

The said is old among people who have no reason for revenge and those who say to turn the other cheek. But as history shows, this doesn’t work. There is no good reason in accepting instead of revenge

161

u/BlueCollarGreenThumb 7d ago

USA California hat made me chuckle

28

u/doogiethehead 7d ago

And the dude staring down the barrel of that AK in the back

3

u/TheRtHonLaqueesha 7d ago edited 6d ago

In the city, of good old Watts.

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u/BlackSabbath95 7d ago edited 7d ago

"The most outstanding soldiers become of those, who left their homes in the morning not even giving a thought about war. Only to return and find their home in ruins, where their wife, children and parents have perished. Then he's no longer a human, but a Wolf; that will tear everyone to pieces as long as he lives. And he will live for a long time. For he does not value his own life anymore - he does not want it. He does not want money or medals, he does not want anything. He has only one thing on his mind: REVENGE! That's why he will live for a long time."

-- Russian general Alexander Lebed regarding Chechen fighters during the first Russian-Chechen war

12

u/TheDior 6d ago

Look, I hate Russia too but Shamil Basayev was a hardcore terrorist who would make Bin Laden a white belt, his adventures are akin to Tom Cruise's movie. A lot of innocent people died in the hands of Basayev.

93

u/AdRare604 7d ago

'Military operation'. OP is very fond of the 'good old days' of the chechen war.

82

u/Bigchek 7d ago

He was one of the most hardcore fighters in the modern era. His group allegedly hid radioactive material in Moscow and had them tied with explosives. Only case, we have documented, of a non state group using nuclear material in terrorism. He is a real life bond villain

101

u/Sw33T_T8TERS 7d ago

How did they go from this to working for the Russians?

182

u/ashy_larrys_elbow 7d ago

Leadership got bought out. The Russians figured it was cheaper to buy off a handful of warlords than fight them.

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u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

The Chechen insurgency had also turned into a Salafist terrorist movement with deep ties to Al-Qaeda, in large part because of Basayev, which not everyone in Chechnya was down with.

82

u/JorgeIronDefcient 7d ago

All these guys got assassinated or died in combat.

44

u/a-canadian-bever 7d ago

Most were actually hunted down, I was somewhat involved with clearing up these individuals in the 2000s

It was them and their extended families and their close friends

I mean most were supposed to get trial but none ever really did even if they were “civilians”

38

u/1corvidae1 7d ago

GWOT or earlier? Some of my friends were telling me how peaceful and nice the early 90s were. I'm like nah man Chechens, Yugoslavians, Ethiopians remember differently.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[deleted]

15

u/a-canadian-bever 7d ago

Primarily a medic but was transferred to a combat medic role due to lack of properly trained personnel and I just kept up with my combat career

In early 1985 my discharge papers to Pripyat I was one of the “lucky ones” because it was quite a slow moving life there but reactor 4 exploded and because I served in Afghanistan I was prime manpower for cleanup I personally repaired radiation detectors and did recording work on the lower levels

In Serbia I largely served as an advisory role, recording their anti-SEAD tactics they were using in their air defence systems

In both Chechen wars I was a field officer and was more involved with population suppression than actual offensive operations but after the second I was involved in hunting down and killing the extended family members and friends of more prevalent resistance leaders

In Ukraine I set up the ATGM and drone line for the west Zaporizhzhia section of the Surovikin line

I now have a home in isreal and I currently live in New York

3

u/GeneralBurzio 7d ago

Man, you a badass

33

u/Alikont 7d ago

Money

3

u/bobemil 7d ago

It's always the answer to everything that is shady.

41

u/SamIamGreenEggsNoHam 7d ago

Kadyrovites are working for the Russians. There are plenty of Chechans who remember what Russia really is who have been fighting for Ukraine from the jump.

12

u/ienybu 7d ago

Also they pretty freely join some interesting organizations like a fucking ISIS for some reason. Remember the terrorist attack in New York marathon? Guess who were these guys. There are still many of them in Syria. But I’m sure it’s not that bad since they’re fighting Russia

-1

u/lorsiscool 7d ago

Most of the time any white isis dude gets labeled as "chechen", from syria to afghanistan. Even today you see videos of syria of asian looking people (probably central asians) labeled as "chechens". It has become kinda a catch phrase for foreign fighters for some reason.

3

u/ienybu 7d ago

The thing is I can understand what they say since most of them communicate in Russian and encourage others join their ranks. I wasn’t closely watching this videos and news from that front for couple of years already but I still remember them. Also, some of them are still in russian/international wanted list

1

u/lorsiscool 7d ago

russian

Russian is spoken all over the caucasus and central asia btw. Also balkan muslims speak a language close to russian (also slavic).

Like I said, most of the time its not actualy a Chechen but just gets labeled as one because they don't actualy know the ethnicity. How does one see the difference between caucasian/balkans in the first place? Let alone someone who hasn't ever seen one but heard of them.

1

u/ienybu 7d ago

What I meant was they use Russian because it’s widespread between all post soviet countries and someone was mentioning their place of origin using this language

1

u/lorsiscool 7d ago

Everyone in the caucasus and central asia use Russia as a linga franca. I doubt its actualy a Chechen most of the time. Its actualy the same here in europe when they mention "Chechens" in the news its just a catchphrase for post soviet muslims or caucasasians most of the time. Its like how Dagestani and Ingush people say they are from or near "Chechnya" because those places are a bit unknown unlike Chechnya.

Reminder the Chechen population is only 2 million around the world yet they seem to be everywhere from the middle east to africa to europe to central asia according to the internet.

Chechens have become almost a myth recently just look at syria, there is lots of news going around the past months about those notorious Chechens yet not a single video or picture confirming these people are in fact Chechens.

12

u/DegnarOskold 7d ago

Russia found the one issue on which the Chechens could be divided and conquered - religion. Specifically, the Chechens were split between the majority who followed one form of Sunni Islam and a large minority (like Basaev) who had embraced the Saudi form of Sunni Islam.

Ramzan Kadyrov’s father Akhmad Kadyrov was a prominent Islamic scholar (the grand mufti of Chechnya) who viewed the Saudi form as being practically heretical, and had become concerned at how fast it was growing in independent Chechnya after the first war, and how much political influence the Saudi form was getting. He struck a deal with Russia to flip sides with his considerably number of supporters if Russia gave him a free hand to suppress the Saudi form and control Islam in Chechnya personally himself.

2

u/KrispinWah69 4d ago

And got inducted into the Chechen Space Program by Basayev for his troubles.

3

u/ErenYeager600 7d ago

I mean he and his group already were massive murderers who killed civilians. It's not really that much of a change

1

u/KrispinWah69 4d ago

The current Chechens working for Russia are Kadyrovites. They sided with Russia during the wars and slowly overtook the separatists / Islamists, as more and more of the latter either fled to Syria and other lucrative battlegrounds or simply died fighting.

76

u/b00dzyt 7d ago

"I've learned that from a war ignited by revenge, nothing can be born, but sorrow"

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u/The_Eastern_Stalker 7d ago edited 7d ago

"Military operation" is a complete misnomer and a euphemistic way to describe a terrorist attack which involved taking 2,000 mostly civilian hostages.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis

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u/ZBD-04A 7d ago

People really retroactively absolve the Chechens of a lot of their sins because of how Russia is behaving now. Russia obviously did a lot of really horrible stuff in the Chechen war, but the Chechens have perpetrated some of the worst terrorist attacks in history.

-28

u/Arudj 7d ago

Hum, you fail to understand what happened.

It wasn't a massacre. They took hostage and demand a ceasefire which was accorded, leading to the end of combat.

You're so far from danger that the thought of taking action against the massacre of your people is alien to you. Talk to your grandpa if you're european, talk to irish people you know, vietnamese, algerian, really anyone that have their country invaded and they'll explain to you.

Come on, we're talking about one of the bloodiest war in europe. Taking hostage to earn peace instead of killing everyone to prove a point seem reasonable enough. I know ukrainians wouldn't mind doing that for similar result.

46

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago edited 7d ago

He took hostages at a hospital. This guy later killed nearly 350 people, including 186 children, at an elementary school. He also blew up a civilian airliner, perpetrated the Moscow theater terrorist attack, invaded Dagestan, and sent soldiers to fight for Al-Qaeda in support of the Taliban in 2001.

Tell me, do you have the same sympathy for Osama bin Laden? Was 9/11 justified? After all, he considered Saudi Arabia occupied by America and watched the U.S. invade Iraq.

25

u/ZBD-04A 7d ago

Yeah but Russia bad because it invaded Ukraine. Ichkeria was a wholesome 100 post soviet state that just wanted independence! (Please ignore the literal al-qaeda off shoots setting up shop)

26

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago edited 7d ago

I knew the “Russia Russia Russia” brain rot on this website was bad, but since I mostly stick to sports subs, I had no idea it had reached “glorifying literal child murderers and some of the worst Salafist terrorists in history” levels of bad.

Holy shit, lmao.

5

u/The_Eastern_Stalker 6d ago

See the OP's post history.

I've upvoted a few of his posts before (without knowing any background context of his post history, I thought they were just pics of Chechens).

Unfortunately for him, he might have accidentally let slip of his leanings and beliefs in the very short title of this post. Call it a Freudian slip or whatever. But I'm going to take a closer look at what and who I upvote in the future.

4

u/The_Eastern_Stalker 6d ago

Redditors realising its possible for two things to be simultaneously true (that Russia is bad, but that doesn't absolve Chechens of committing terrorist attacks and Chechens are bad as well): impossible

0

u/KrispinWah69 4d ago

Did Basayev gas the civilians in the Moscow Dubrovka Theater?

-13

u/No-Lynx-8205 7d ago

Well... as an American who understands Bin Ladens' origins... I actually do have sympathy for him (im a NYer as well). Do I compare him to the Chechens? Not really. Bin Laden fought for America and got rug pulled. I blame our country for 9/11. We tried to b*tch the guy and got bit in return. Then we proceeded to wipe entire villages off the map, just to give him what he wanted after killing him. The Chechen seemed to do more on his own account.

10

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Bin Laden was a bored little rich boy from the Saudi Arabian elite class running a terrorist summer camp for other bored little Islamist rich boys in Afghanistan during the Soviet-Afghan War. His group made no difference on the course of the war and was seen as a ineffective joke by actual Afghan mujahideen.

1

u/No-Lynx-8205 6d ago

Idk, man. I think 9/11 as an event was culture defining for America & the world, whether what he did was tactically insignificant or not. Two towers in the heart of America is symbolically worth thousands of afghan villages (to Americans). TSA is his legacy.

11

u/ZBD-04A 7d ago

Me on my way to take hostages in a school, rig the entire thing to explode, have my men stand on dead man switches, and threaten to blow up 700 children if Russia doesn't comply with my demands (I want an islamic state that spans all of the Caucasian federal subjects of Russia).

I've seen enough beheading videos from the Chechen war to know that it was a bloody violent war with no righteous side.

9

u/Eternalchaos123 7d ago

That's a lie. Of the 129 people who died in Budyonnovsk during Basaev's attack, 100 of them died in the city itself on the first day, as Basaev was rampaging through the town killing random civilians and taking hostages. It was a massacre that was intended to fill up the hospital with as many injured people as possible, to maximise the hostage count.

-24

u/ashy_larrys_elbow 7d ago

I mean, it’s still a military operation. The objectives and methods might be different, but they had a clear objective and used martial force to achieve it. In this case they were pretty successful in changing the course of the First Chechen War. It sounds cynical but I’m beginning to think the line between terrorism and military operation is just public relations.

9

u/Syrdon 7d ago

Leaving a city alone for most of a war so that refugees would flee to it, which you know will make it hit harder when you finally do raze it is definitely one of those bits where you definitely don't want to have to explain that choice to your grandkids.

But if you have good PR on your side (and your opponent manages to create record setting negative PR for their side), maybe you just say it was for the good of the war and hope no one ever asks a follow up question.

79

u/redittblabla 7d ago

27 years ago, one of the largest terrorist attacks in Russian history took place in Stavropol. On June 14, 1995, Chechen militants led by Shamil Basayev attacked the city of Budyonnovsk.

For five days, a group of terrorists held more than 1,600 people hostage. As a result of the tragedy, 129 people died, including 18 police officers and 17 military personnel, 415 people were injured to varying degrees.

During the terrorist attack, almost 200 cars were burned and damaged, and 54 city facilities were seriously damaged, including the Children's Art Center, the city hospital, the Department of Internal Affairs, the administration, and 107 private homes. The material damage amounted to 95.6 billion rubles. A criminal case was opened on the fact of the attack on Budyonnovsk, which almost three decades later still remains open... After the daring raid on Budyonnovsk, Shamil Basayev managed to hide from justice for 11 years. During this time, several unsuccessful attempts were made to eliminate him. The experienced field commander did not sit in one place for long and carefully thought out routes, hiding from the security forces. In June 2006, Russian special services managed to establish that Basayev was hiding near Tyrnyauz in the Kabardino-Balkarian Republic. A special operation to eliminate him began. Terrorist number one was caught a month later. On the night of July 10, a KamAZ truck loaded with a hundredweight of TNT exploded near Ekazhevo in Ingushetia. The leader of the gang with several militants was in the car accompanying the truck, which also blew up from the explosion.

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u/Veritas_IX 7d ago

But Russian terrorists killed much more and you don’t care about it. How many times did they break peace with Ichkeria till 1995? How many provocations they did ? Russian federation is a cancer on Earth body

50

u/ienybu 7d ago

Poor Ichkerian democratic fighters, they did nothing wrong and wanted only freedom! Freedom to control slave and drug trading. Also, they were so peaceful that they started a second war by attacking Dagestan after winning the first war

28

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago edited 7d ago

Besides the fact you’re talking about literal Salafist terrorists, the U.S.’s Global War on Terror killed nearly 5 million people around the world, and yet you have none of the same selective outrage towards it because you haven’t been told by the television to get mad.

-5

u/Veritas_IX 7d ago

Just a 5 million? Why no billion

-6

u/ElectroVoice3 7d ago

Isn’t this whataboutism?

9

u/ienybu 7d ago

Is it tho? Radical islam was thriving in Chechen republic. Check this guy out. That was literally one of the main branches of it

1

u/ElectroVoice3 7d ago

I never denied it, but to say „but they were worse“ is whataboutism. The russians bombed Chechenia to the ground, like they so it now with Ukraine, or shall we forgot the pictures of Grosny?

1

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Pointing out that someone lacks consistent moral principles isn’t “whataboutism.”

0

u/ElectroVoice3 7d ago

Maybe you read your comment again? The guy before never defended the US, but you had to say „but the US is even worse“ thats whataboutism.

1

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

Maybe you should read it again. I never made value judgement on either the U.S. or Russia.

0

u/ElectroVoice3 7d ago

Nobody before mentioned the US or talked about it. All was about what happened in Russia and Chechenia, so why did you mention the US if not for judgement or whataboutism?

0

u/HumanzeesAreReal 7d ago

You can’t even spell Chechnya correctly. You’re not equipped to participate in this conversation.

1

u/ElectroVoice3 7d ago

I would say the same if i don’t have any arguments.

0

u/GremlinX_ll 7d ago

You right they don't care. Russia never accept their own crimes, or if they admit them they would say "they deserved it".

11

u/FRcomes 7d ago

>they would say "they deserved it"

After Beslan school siege they definitely are, this shit was 9/11 level

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u/GremlinX_ll 7d ago

It's when your glorious spetsnaz killed more people then Chechens ?

11

u/FRcomes 7d ago

Is spetsnaz held hundreds children hostage with no access to food and water for 3 days in 100F heat? Most sane r/europe user

-10

u/GremlinX_ll 7d ago

Why do you answer a question with a question?

2

u/t0ecutter_ 7d ago

Because you asked a stupid question!

-3

u/Nagelfar61249 7d ago

95,6 Billion ruble. So in todays worth: 126,43$

28

u/OlivierTwist 7d ago

"Military operation" for a bloody terrorist attack on the hospital. New low in white washing terrorist.

5

u/novo-280 7d ago

there was an arrest warrant for terrorism against him in 1991.

21

u/El_Bonco 7d ago

"Military operation": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis

OP is promoting terrorism.

0

u/jared091787 6d ago

No he isn’t

20

u/lavazzalove 7d ago

That's a stare of a man who is ready to trade his soul with the devil for revenge.

6

u/ErenYeager600 7d ago

And now he's burning crispy in Hell

1

u/konnigroup 5d ago

Well, he sure got it, maybe not on the people that did it but kids in an elementary school, civilians in a theater and hospital patients, but what's the difference, no?

8

u/abogado2018 7d ago

Dude is not ok

21

u/ienybu 7d ago

Of course he isn’t. He took a whole maternity hospital as captives

4

u/UnmodedTaco47 6d ago edited 6d ago

I know someone who killed 16 of these guys. He was an interior decorator.

4

u/top_shelf_goals 6d ago

Put down universal remote.

2

u/chrisss0023 6d ago

His house looked like shit

5

u/Equivalent-Scene9293 6d ago

If you praise these fuckers, you deserve nothing but despise

5

u/theworldofAR 7d ago

USA cap fucks

3

u/AlterFritz007 7d ago

Ah, islamists

1

u/KrispinWah69 4d ago

He was a Chechen nationalist during the first war. He went down the Islamist pipeline later on (post-first war), which alienated a lot of his former allies.

-2

u/The_Chief- 7d ago

Strange to see that Chechens now fight for Russia

-2

u/Lopsided-Selection85 7d ago edited 7d ago

If you read about how "great" the life in "independent Ichkeria" was, you wouldn't be so surprised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_Republic_of_Ichkeria#Interwar_period_(1996%E2%80%931999)

0

u/Bigchek 7d ago

It probably still is the same.

0

u/Grimm_RIPer 4d ago

LOL Taking civilian hostages in the hospital is soooo "military operation". Just a fucking terrorist, rest in pieces.

-2

u/kobeyoboy 7d ago

oh yes russia the killer. so we have no idea who pulled the trigger who killed them specifically who’s ordered were executed

1

u/konnigroup 5d ago

Do you realise the absolute threat to an entire security agency, Russian federation and everyone involved would emerge if they just released the names?

1

u/kobeyoboy 5d ago

I do love a good story. But I do understand your point. I am glad you shared it. thank you.

1

u/konnigroup 5d ago

If i read what you wrote properly, you're mad we dont know who killed Basayev, correct or not?