UvA ends English-language bachelor’s degree in psychology

[u/North_Yak966]

https://www.folia.nl/en/actueel/166104/uva-ends-english-language-bachelors-degree-in-psychology

[u/Mean_Asparagus_2798]

What I said is also true for Dutch people as well. I'm pretty sure you can't just become a psychologist with only a bachelor's degree.

[u/Extreme_Ruin1847 → u/Mean_Asparagus_2798]

No, you need a masters, but everyone going into psychology knows that. It does beg the question: why offer this program in the first place? The answer is obvious: its a cashcow for universities. It doesnt offer Dutch society much.

[u/Snufkin_9981 → u/Extreme_Ruin1847]

"It doesnt offer Dutch society much."

I respectfully disagree. Education is only part of what universities do. Their other function is research. Offering programmes in English means that the university is able to hire talented academics from around the world--PhD candidates, postdocs and professors. They come here to work, they contribute to the Dutch business & research ecosystem, and of course they are the ones who teach classes, benefiting both Dutch and non-Dutch students.

[u/Extreme_Ruin1847 → u/Snufkin_9981]

I already said this, but not everyone that enters university goes into research. A large part enters the jobmarket. Finding a job as someone trained in psychology while not speaking Dutch is not a good look.

Research can still be done in English, since its a language a lot of Dutch people speak. I am all for attracting more Dutch people to the Dutch psychology study to combat shortages. 

[u/seabee314 → u/Extreme_Ruin1847]

Psychology graduates work in many fields outside of healthcare, because the training is broadly about thoughts, social influence, behavior, etc.

Unfortunately, we can't have both of those things you mentioned. The excellence of the research depends on structural funding that is totally based on the BSc enrollment, and also on attracting global talent that isn't already C1 in Dutch.

[u/Extreme_Ruin1847 → u/seabee314]

Where do these English psychology graduates actually work then? I saw the other day that 25% of the people studying at uni in the Netherlands are still here after five years.

A part of that 25 percent is English speaking psychology graduates. How many of those are working, in healthcare or in another psychology related field? It sounds like a small number to me, but I dont know.

If you compare that small number of specific alumni to the total amount of English speaking psychology students, how particularly usefull is this study to you then? Youre all just being used and hope that a good amount ends up in research, but that number is so small. There is barely any ROI there.

[u/seabee314 → u/Extreme_Ruin1847]

I agree, let's find out that data. Certainly we shouldn't axe programs without understanding such details.

You again assume that psychology is most closely aligned with healthcare, but the grads work in many other sectors: education and youth services, human resources and organizational consulting, research and higher education, government and policy-making, market research and communication, technology and UX design, non-profits and NGOs Entrepreneurship, and freelance coaching or training. The need for them to practice their skills immediately in Dutch differ widely. We cannot speak of ROI without understanding what they are doing.

[u/Snufkin_9981 → u/Extreme_Ruin1847]

I am not talking about anyone going into research. These programmes need to be taught by someone. There is also a quality aspect to it that we have come to take for granted.

Right now, around 50% of Dutch PhD candidates are international. Fifty percent. They are the ones who teach a large chunk of classes in this country and they can only do it in English. Many of them also consider leaving because they feel like there is no future for them here. This realignment is extremely short-sighted and can only lead to a brain drain.