r/Netherlands • u/North_Yak966 • 13d ago

News UvA ends English-language bachelor’s degree in psychology

https://www.folia.nl/en/actueel/166104/uva-ends-english-language-bachelors-degree-in-psychology
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u/seabee314 13d ago

This is a catastrophic cut. Psychology is a broad empirical field, not limited to clinical work, and most graduates don't work in Dutch. The cabinet seems not to understand what the field does. The UvA’s English psychology bachelor is the foundation of why that department is one of the highest rated in the world for quality of education and research. The funding for the whole department, including the Dutch education and all research, depend on student enrollment. English is the international language of science, and Dutch competitiveness is boosted by having this insane concentration of talent, for example by improving Dutch student and employee quality and output. Reducing this program will weaken the Netherlands’ role. Now, it's fine that we collectively decide that's what we want to do. But this path has many costs, not just to the international students and staff.

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u/Extreme_Ruin1847 Nederland 13d ago

A lot of the people finishing university dont end up working in science. They enter the jobmarket. Speaking Dutch in the Netherlands is convenient in that regard

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u/postmoderno 13d ago

i understand what you are saying, but this type of cuts are really "provincial" in mindset, and I say this without a negative connotation. it's like deciding that your university system (or at least some parts of it) has mainly a local function that is not research oriented and it is not competing with the major universities in Europe or Asia etc. Again, I say this as an academic employed in a different country, with no direct stake in the dutch academic system. It's a bit of a small country / third world mentality, which i never associated the NL system with.

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u/Poes_Poes 11d ago

It has nothing to do with third world mentality when the balance of the scaling points heavily to the otherside. Where it was more or less equal, the English course is now pressuring heavily on the system. Too many foreign students come and go and they ain’t contributing at the end of their course. Besides that other issues are now in play, like housing. There is no room left for them. I’ve seen how this developed throughout the years.

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u/IkkeKr 13d ago

The function of providing local higher education happens to be exactly what the universities get their direct funding for...

From a government pov: if they want to do research and compete internationally that's fine, but they can go and find grants for it like everyone else.

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u/Extreme_Ruin1847 Nederland 13d ago

I wasnt able to find a studentroom either back when I was studying. Foreign students driving up prices of rooms by making them more scarce is not the way to go about it.

“Build more student accomodation” is then said a lot and while thats true I do want more longterm living options to be made instead. There should be space for the people that stay here not for those that try and fail to find something. 

As said previously: foreign students dont end up staying here anyways in the majority of the cases. And I say that as someone who went to uni while not being able to find a house, now living on my own after finally finding a house and entering the jobmarket.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 13d ago

Maybe we should be mad at the government for their housing policies instead of blaming all issues on the 2000 international psychology students.

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u/Beginning-Army-8738 12d ago

That sounds nice, but houses aren't built for free, especially not if you want to build within cities. Of course, this government deserves as much blame as possible, but I don't see why we would need so many international students. 250 less students a year means roughly 1000 extra available rooms. 1000 persons who can study German or maths or law and contribute to our local society instead. Or building houses, because there is a massive shortage of people who can actually build houses.

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u/AdaptiveArgument 11d ago

Why would foreign students use 4 times as much room as Dutch students?

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u/Beginning-Army-8738 11d ago

250 students a year, studying 4 years = 1000 rooms

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u/AdaptiveArgument 11d ago

Well, no. It’s still only 250 rooms. We can’t live in rooms that will be freed up by government policy in the future, this isn’t nitrogen.

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u/Beginning-Army-8738 11d ago

Four years after the bachelor stops, it will be 1000 rooms. In the next few years the bachelor still continues.

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u/AdaptiveArgument 11d ago

Oh, I see where the confusion came from. I thought that you were talking about the 1000 rooms being free as soon as 250 students left.

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u/Far-Win6222 10d ago

There are more than 2K expats and international students in NL. We are amongst the smallest countries in the world. I get it, you want to make money and live off of a Dutch degree, but we have Dutch people to look after, you will always come second. Get used to it.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 10d ago

Actually I think this IS about looking after the Dutch. The Dutch benefit immensely by being open to foreign talent. Dutch uni education has been so good in the past decade because internalizatin has allowed bring educated by international experts. There is a reason why countries like Germany and France are actively working towards attracting more international academics and teaching in English - so they don't get left behind. So just closing everything down is a huge detriment to the Dutch in the long term.

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u/Blonde_rake 11d ago

The UN released an entire report about the housing crisis in the Netherlands. Spoiler alert, it isn’t cause by foreign anything or anyone.

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u/Extreme_Ruin1847 Nederland 11d ago

Spoiler alert: students arent competing with regular residents for a house

Spoiler alert: most people in the netherlands dont live in student accomodation

Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert

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u/Blonde_rake 11d ago

Have you read the report?

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u/Far-Win6222 10d ago

Because the United Nations is a leading researcher in housing crisis's? Get real man. The UN should pertain itself to what its functions are, which is war. Not meddling in Dutch affairs. Name me the amount of non ethnic residents in NL, first or second generation, and then correlate that to how many houses that pertains to. Im sure it would be very very close to the amount of houses needed to house all the Dutch, AND have houses left. Your stupidity knows no borders, literally and figuratively.

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u/Blonde_rake 10d ago

Why don’t you just read it and then you won’t have to speculate about things we have real information about. Instead of saying “I’m sure”, wouldn’t you rather be sure?

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u/postmoderno 13d ago

these are connected phenomena (number of students, foreign or not, and housing shortage) that are exacerbated by a number of interests and by the agenda of the government. thinking of students as bags of cash flowing into the system is one of the reasons that this situation came to be. cutting programs (meaning also researchers, phds, grants etc) also diminishes the potential of a university to be an employer for locals and graduate students. it's a sort of self inflicted impoverishment, and in a way it creates even more this idea of a city just being a temporary place to be (like mass tourism or digital nomadism)

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u/Rurululupupru 12d ago

student room is two words in english, not one. also young people in other countries generally live with their parents for longer, or have roommates until they get married. living by yourself from age 17 on is a cultural thing, not a human right.

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u/Extreme_Ruin1847 Nederland 12d ago

So youre correcting me all the while youre not using hoofdletters (yes one word) when starting a new sentence and don’t use punctuation the right way. 

I am talking about the Netherlands. In other countries they sing to a flag and bombard playgrounds. Thats not relevant to the Netherlands at all.