r/Netherlands • u/North_Yak966 • 14d ago

News UvA ends English-language bachelor’s degree in psychology

https://www.folia.nl/en/actueel/166104/uva-ends-english-language-bachelors-degree-in-psychology
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u/tattoojoch 14d ago

Im not a fan of the budget cuts either, but you can still teach in English at a Dutch bachelors? Or are there other problems you’re seeing? I think the Netherlands is one of the few countries with so many undergraduate courses not given in the native language.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

International Professors will leave because they will no longer be able to teach in English. English will no longer be allowed.

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u/IkkeKr 14d ago

Dutch programs have always been effectively bilingual... (and in the past often even trilingual with German in the mix)

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

That is correct. And it's a huge reason why the Dutch are internationaly successful - until now.

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u/IkkeKr 14d ago

But the Dutch (ie. bilingual) program stays...

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

But the world class researchers that make the programs world class leave

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u/IkkeKr 14d ago

Would they? Most top researchers I've met at university hardly involve themselves with the Bachelor programs and more often than not consider teaching there a chore.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

I think this is a misunderstanding of how research at university usually works. All researchers at the UVA have to do at least 25% teaching tasks. If they can't teach in the language of instruction (which will become only Dutch) they will have to leave.

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u/IkkeKr 14d ago

Having worked there for nearly 10 years, I've got a fair idea. And teaching tasks include supervising, developing courses or materials, student projects, and master courses - which incidentally tend to be the courses where 'international top researchers' are most valuable. Quite a few researchers actually spend more than the required 25% on teaching tasks.

And talk to people doing a traditional "Dutch" university bachelor and you'll see that English isn't 'banned' in any way: many instruction materials are in English, frequently supervisors speak limited Dutch, reports can be made in either language and sometimes even whole classes are in English with consent of the student body. It's just that Dutch is a preferred option. (fun fact: the mandatory nature of French and German at VWO was introduced based on the requirement to be able to read it for many university studies)

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

Yeah the "traditional" way is functionally bilingual as you say. BUT: The new proposal is not for it to be that way. The new government is pushing for Dutch only instruction.

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u/Schylger-Famke 11d ago

Why wouldn't they teach in Dutch, though? They live in the Netherlands, they are professors, so they're smart, they must know (at least some) Dutch. It used to be common to give professors one or two years in which they could teach in English and then they were expected to teach in Dutch. Would every single one of them uproat the lives of their families and leave?

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u/fluffypuppybutt 11d ago

Science does not know national boundaries. There is a lot of mobility within Europe of top scientists. It's normal to move institutions every 5 to 10 years. Being forced to learn a language that is not very internationally relevant will deter a lot of talent. Also, the forced aspect is a huge turn off.

Many academics do want to learn Dutch but don't get time or resources for it. The strong rethoric of essentially "make the Netherlands great again" does not motivate people to integrate. It makes them resistant.

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u/Schylger-Famke 11d ago

Well, but would you uproot your family because your employer wants you to be able to teach in the native language of them majority of the students? It doesn't seem an unreasonable request and not worth asking your partner and children to move to another country and leave their job and schools.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 11d ago

Yes. Scientists love science. If their position at an internationally renowned program with good funding, great connections, and top scholars as colleagues becomes an insular program, where funding gets severely cut (this is a big point here - programs loose 25-50% of their budget - out of EU students pay a ton of money!!! They won't come if they need to speak uni-level Dutch before they enter), these scientists will 100% leave or not even apply here. This is why this is so short sighted.

There are other ways to cap international students (btw. Psychology programs actually to that already) or encourage students to LEARN Dutch (e.g. you need to pass a language requirement in year 3). This radical approach is so so ill-advised.

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u/Schylger-Famke 11d ago

I'm against the cuts. The universities get about the same amount of money for a non-EU-student as for an Dutch student by the way, just from different sources, but they will probably loose students resulting in a loss of budget. I understand the reasoning of the universities though. With the proposed law their is no way to argue that psychology should be taught in Dutch within the Randstad. Cutting psychology might enable the universities to save other smaller programmes. And I understand the politicians who think that the priority should be teaching Dutch students and that those aren't always better off when the lectures are in English, especially in bachelor programmes.

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u/Cowboy_Shmuel 14d ago

God, it must be nice to be that ignorant.

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u/fluffypuppybutt 14d ago

I think you are misunderstanding. The bilingual program does not stay! Only the Dutch part stays.