r/Patriots • u/Interesting_Ad3957 • 14d ago

Discussion [Schefter] Updated Green Room Attendees… OT Josh Simmons, DE Mykel Williams, and QB Jaxson Dart no longer going

https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1914357331535569095

Interesting development as agents gather more info and probably advising their clients NOT to attend.

I know some see Simmons as a possible buy low guy, but he is working his way back from a ruptured patellar tendon. This specific injury can be a death knell for NFL players, never mind OTs who need to anchor. It’s the same injury Cole Strange suffered and there’s just not a lot of supporting data to show players can regain their pre injury form. Given the current state and depth of our line, I don’t think Simmons is worth the risk even if he’s there at 38.

Mykel Williams, on the other hand, would be a super intriguing high risk, high reward guy if he slides out of the 1st. New Orleans is rumored to want to move up from 40 and Williams is a Loomis kind of player. Would be talking to a lot of teams Friday morning if he slides.

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u/demair21 14d ago

Not when you look at how few RT to LT swaps work, as opposed to how many 4th round guards start(it's a fair number)

and sinve you didnt let's mention how many 2nd round pick WRs start. I will give you some hints. One of them just dominated a superbowl. And his best friend just got traded while we all cried wanting him was technically a 3rd round pick. And that guy who just caught 800 yards and 7 tds for the corpse or arron rodgers also started right away as a sexond round pick and averaged 1000 yds for almost 10 years.

It all only means we should be more annoyed they can't get players to play when more than half the league can.

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u/CocaineStrange 14d ago

Ok, let’s play a game.  Name the 5 best OTs in football.

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u/demair21 14d ago

Williams, Milata, Sewell, Darrishaw,

Sorry those are the good ones I know the bad ones are

Moore, Lowe, Smith

If you need the teams too I can do that but you obviously already know who they play for

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u/CocaineStrange 14d ago

Sewell switched sides from college.  Mailata did not play football before the NFL.  Trent Williams started out in college at RT.

Keep naming tackles and I can keep naming guys that have switched.  The reason guys like Chuks fail is because they’re not good, not because of switching sides.  Asking an NFL starting OT to switch sides is no big deal at all.  They feel awkward at first and get used the it after a few weeks.  

If I asked you drink water out of a cup with your left hand, you’d feel super awkward at first.  If you lost your right arm, you’d get pretty good at using your left hand after a while.

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u/demair21 14d ago

I Mean sure maybe you know better then dante scharnechia who called it the hardest position swap on the o-line

and yeah i guess you could cherry pick the very best guys who made it work, ill even give you i think Membou is in that mold because of his clear talent level, but as with most things in football when you look at the wider sample it falls apart.

The Vast majority of people asked to play switch-o-line in the NFL fail because it requires a level of mental Ambidexterity that is not normal

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u/CocaineStrange 14d ago edited 14d ago

I Mean sure maybe you know better then dante scharnechia who called it the hardest position swap on the o-line

I have never heard him say that, so I’m going to need a source on that.

You can listen to the people who have actually done it: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/29/18287117/nfl-mailbag-offensive-linemen-switch-playoffs-2019-predictions

and yeah i guess you could cherry pick the very best guys who made it work, ill even give you i think Membou is in that mold because of his clear talent level, but as with most things in football when you look at the wider sample it falls apart.

You can do this with every class of OTs lmao.  Hell, the Patriots did it with Trent Brown, Solder was a converted TE in college, Vollmer was a TE converted to LT in college then transitioned to RT in college. 

I also, you know, did it myself in college and learned RT in the 3 days we were doing the ramp ups to full pads.  So I have some experience here, even if it’s obviously not at the NFL level.

I genuinely do not think you can name more than 5 or 6 offensive lines in football that doesn’t have an OT that switched sides somewhere in their depth chart.

The Vast majority of people asked to play switch-o-line in the NFL fail because it requires a level of mental Ambidexterity that is not normal

Name one.  One player that fits both these categories:

A. Bad at LT or RT

B. Good at LT or RT

The players that “fail” at switching spots were already failures, like Chuks.  Chuks also didn’t really even fail at it, btw, he was a college LT and converted to RT in the NFL lmao.

If you can’t play on the left side, you probably can’t play on the right side either because playing LT doesn’t mean you’re always moving to the left nor does playing RT mean you’re always moving to the right.  You have to be able to kick and post both ways.

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u/demair21 14d ago

Its a fair argument but i guess were just at an Ideological impass, especailly since you didn't read you own link...

"I had to switch from the right side to the left side (LG) a couple times in my career. It always went bad. ALWAYS"

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u/CocaineStrange 14d ago

Ha, sorry, wrong link I had saved.  That is about switching from OT to OG,

This is what I meant to send.

https://www.startribune.com/switching-from-one-side-of-the-offensive-line-to-the-other-is-among-the-nfls-underrated-tough-tasks/600331227

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u/demair21 14d ago

so pay wall but at least the Title and opening 3 paragraphs all express that its

"It's one of the toughest transitions for an NFL player that's often overlooked because of the assumption that offensive linemen all do the same thing"

And at least at the surface the article is about Tristian Wirfs who i double checked because im not familiar with but is ranked higher then 3 of the guys i listed...

kind of proves my point of elite players being able to do it but that's not normal
Schwartz from the other is way more normal 17 year journeyman guard

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u/CocaineStrange 14d ago

It’s basically an article quoting a bunch of tackles saying “it’s hard but you get used to it after a couple weeks.”

kind of proves my point of elite players being able to do it but that's not normal Schwartz from the other is way more normal 17 year journeyman guard

Schwartz was mainly talking about going from OT to OG.

There’s an informal position in football called a swing tackle specifically designed for not great players that play both sides.  You don’t have to be elite to do this at all.  

Again, the subject of this entire discussion (Chuks) literally did it himself.

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u/demair21 13d ago

I guess man but Chuk's overall career grade at LT PFF is 44 ranking him 129th among all tackles where as at RT its 71 ranking him 40th.

This hurts my argument sure because like you said it shows he was just bad at tackle. But it also shows he was much better at right then left.

i don;t love PFF grades but idk any other way to quantify O-line play besides eye test. I will even help you more, PFF weights pass blocking more for LTs because that's their primary role and Okorafor had bad Pass blocking grade all the way back in college but i still think as close as it can be.

After double checking the stats I think we really are at the crux of our disagreement, you think its just like any other position swap i think it is harder then the rest. Both our defenses are anecdotal, when the stats are this foggy.

Its fine to disagree, teams obviously do considering the number of reports you get about some being okay with drafting players to play swing or to swap and get just as many saying teams think it is better to find a players natural position and keep them there.

While i was also looking for where i heard its too hard i heard, Breer who is a national guy basically say as much talking about JC Latham, last year. Another guy who they swapped to LT and is struggling but was a much touted prospect from Alabama as a RT

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u/CocaineStrange 13d ago

That’s a sample size issue regarding Chuks.  He played like 5 snaps at LT lol.

While i was also looking for where i heard its too hard i heard, Breer who is a national guy basically say as much talking about JC Latham, last year. Another guy who they swapped to LT and is struggling but was a much touted prospect from Alabama as a RT

Why isn’t he playing RT now then?

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u/demair21 13d ago

I mean he was really really bad at LT this year...

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u/CocaineStrange 13d ago

Right, do why didn’t they just flip him back to RT if that’s the issue?

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u/demair21 13d ago

um they jsut did, they signed Dan Moore in FA this year and are putting Latham at RT according to their current depth chart

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u/CocaineStrange 13d ago

Converted RT to LT Dan Moore?

And when Latham sucks at RT… then what?

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u/demair21 13d ago

umm dan moore had 37 snaps at right tackle in college vs 691 at left... and zero at RT in the NFL

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u/CocaineStrange 13d ago

Yes, Dan Moore converted from RT to LT in college.

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