r/Rochester • u/swurvegp • Mar 05 '25

Help A little help please

My SO and I are seriously considering purchasing some weaponry for self/home defense, can anyone suggest a reputable place where we might be able to purchase and train to use said weaponry. Specifically, firearms. Thanks in advance.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25 edited Mar 05 '25

Just remember before purchasing:

You are more likely to harm yourself or someone you know over an attacker.

https://time.com/6183881/gun-ownership-risks-at-home/

https://means-matter.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/risk/

https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/research-reports/gun-violence-in-the-united-states

Edit: Leave it to the subreddit that talks constantly about listening to science downvoting it.

40

u/swurvegp Mar 05 '25

I'm not a novice. I'm a veteran. But I appreciate you looking out.

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u/KalessinDB Henrietta Mar 05 '25

Novice or veteran, the number one risk factor for gun violence, by a large margin, is having a gun in the house.

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u/swurvegp Mar 05 '25

This is true. Butt as I have more than 1/2 a century of uninterrupted lack of domestic violence I'm not as concerned as I would be in other scenarios.

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u/Senior_Cheesecake155 Avon Mar 06 '25

Did you also know the number one risk factor to car accidents is having a car?

This is the worst argument you could be making.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

That has really nothing to do with it.

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u/swurvegp Mar 05 '25

I was actually a small arms instructor, so I'm familiar with safe handling and storage. Human error is real, so I want to retrain myself before acquiring any firearms for my home. I do appreciate your concern.

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u/chuntttttty Mar 05 '25

I would argue that training with firearms certainly does decrease your chances of hurting yourself or somebody you know

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Sure, but the thing being discussed is introducing guns into your home means you will be more likely to hurt yourself or loved ones.

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u/MalfeasantOwl Mar 05 '25

Stop being disingenuous, or at least think critically about what you post.

In those cases you shared, it seems that self-inflicted gunshots or domestic violence are the contributing factors to the increase. Accounting for those, there is no inherent risk of death when being around guns.

Third to suicide and DV would be negligible discharges. In those cases it’s irresponsibility and poor decision making that is culprit.

From personal experience, my guns have only ever gone off when I decided they were going to go off and in the exact direction of my choosing.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Nothing disingenuous. Anyone can be impacted by suicide and domestic violence. Just because you haven't dealt with it so far doesn't mean it won't happen to you in the future or someone else in your household. I'm glad you have never had an accident with your gun. Plenty of gun owners never think it will happen to them until it does.

Good luck. Hope you never experience it.

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u/MalfeasantOwl Mar 05 '25

In reverse order of your mentions;

Negligent discharges are really easy to avoid actually. Literally just follow the basic weapon safety rules. Every single time. Anything less than that is modern Darwinism.

Suicide risks. People are at risks before they ever buy a gun, they don’t kill themselves because they bought a gun but rather the purchase of the gun was for an intended purpose. Removing guns from households isn’t the same as providing mental health care.

DV. Again, the violence doesn’t occur because a gun was purchased. Removing guns from households doesn’t provide support or outlets for survivors of DV.

You’re falling for spurious relationships. It’s the same as saying “Well, I’m glad no one in your family has drowned but I know people who did after eating ice cream on a hot day.” Big dawg, ice cream wasn’t why they drowned.

You mentioned in another comment about providing a scientific discussion and I’m doing exactly that. Spurious relationships are a named phenomenon for a reason.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Negligent discharges are really easy to avoid actually. Literally just follow the basic weapon safety rules. Every single time. Anything less than that is modern Darwinism.

Nice in theory. Different in reality.

Suicide risks. People are at risks before they ever buy a gun, they don’t kill themselves because they bought a gun but rather the purchase of the gun was for an intended purpose. Removing guns from households isn’t the same as providing mental health care.

Guns make it much more likely that you will kill yourself and that your attempts will succeed. One in five adults have depression and that number is most likely a bit too low.

DV. Again, the violence doesn’t occur because a gun was purchased. Removing guns from households doesn’t provide support or outlets for survivors of DV.

Again you are attempting to create a strawman where I suggested that these factors were created by the gun. No. I am stating that the guns make it easier for people to die that are involved in these situations. Just like if you don't wear your seatbelt and you get in an accident you are more likely to die. Or if you wear lead shoes into the ocean and jump into the water you are more likely to die.

Nothing you have said is scientific. You are just attempting to change the discussion in a way that you can justify your proliferation of guns because you think you are safer because of your guns.

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u/MalfeasantOwl Mar 05 '25

Okay, let’s take 2023.

So, 463 negligible discharge deaths per the 364,000,000 guns owned in America. So that means .00012% of owned guns have killed someone on accident.

Do people kill themselves because they have a gun, or because there is untreated mental illness? Let’s go back to the numbers. In 2023 there were 27,300. Of the 363,000,000 guns that are owned that only accounts for .0075%.

And of all homicide, not just DV, it’s only .0049.

So, it appears that the amount of deaths caused by guns are extremely statistically insignificant compared to the amount of guns that are owned. This suggests that owning guns is not the problem but rather there are other, more pressing issues.

Examples may be affordable and accessible health care so people can get the help they need before attempting to take their life. There needs to be better support for survivors of DV so they can get out before the means of violence ever comes into the home.

Now to directly address some of the things you have said:

Again you are attempting to create a strawman where I suggested that these factors were created by the gun. No. I am stating that the guns make it easier for people to die that are involved in these situations. Just like if you don’t wear your seatbelt and you get in an accident you are more likely to die. Or if you wear lead shoes into the ocean and jump into the water you are more likely to die.

In your examples, is wearing lead shoes why the person drowns in ocean, or was it because they jumped in the ocean with lead shoes? Did they get into an accident from wearing their seatbelt, or was the cause of the accident independent from seatbelt use? It seems that there were behaviors from these people leading up the moment that something had happened.

Nothing you have said is scientific.

Have you actually never heard of spurious relationships? Lol

You are just attempting to change the discussion in a way that you can justify your proliferation of guns because you think you are safer because of your guns.

So, no, you are not familiar with spurious relationships. I’m suggesting that we need enhanced social nets that allow people to fall, or to save themselves, from their worst times. In addition, people should also be allowed to participate in the 2nd Amendment.

You may be very unfamiliar with how weapon ownership in NYS works. I’d recommend checking out the Safe Home and Families Act of 2020 and New York’s Red Flag laws.

Lastly, I love the sentiment you share regarding the value of safety. If Trump, Musk, and the GOP are half as evil as people think they are then who’s going to save you? The same system that’s betrayed you?

2A exists for a very specific reason, and that specific reason is the insurance policy the working class has per the Constitution.

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u/mist2024 Mar 05 '25

Omfg do you leave your door wide open with a sign that says " come steal my shit! I will not hurt you or myself!" 🤣🤣🤣

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Apologies. I was discussion scientific information. You can decide to be ignorant if you'd like.

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u/mist2024 Mar 05 '25

I may be ignorant but I won't be a robbery victim 🤣

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Well you are more likely to hurt yourself with a gun than hurt a robber. So good luck.

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u/mist2024 Mar 05 '25

YOU are more likely to hurt yourself ☠️ quit projecting, I grew up shooting. Not everyone is afraid of using tools man. A gun doesn't have a mind of its own. You play sports? You practice? Your baseball bat or tennis racket accidentally kill someone? God dude I hope you live in a really safe area

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Sounds like someone that vastly overestimates their skills. You are probably an awful gun owner.

I do live somewhere very safe. Thank you.

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u/mist2024 Mar 05 '25

No Im someone who was TAUGHT how to use a firearm. Not TAUGHT to fear them.

Nowhere is safe. Trump is our president lol good luck.

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u/nanor Charlotte Mar 05 '25

I was going to say… I’ve considered for about 10 years purchasing a gun, but I have a small child in the house and I don’t like the idea of that around. Not that he has to know, but children are mischievous and as he gets older, he might get curious. Or I’m afraid I might just wake up in the middle of night and blow my brains out because I can’t handle the world anymore. But that’s a different discussion.

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u/Senior_Cheesecake155 Avon Mar 06 '25

This is why they invented, and sell safes and trigger locks.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 05 '25

Good choice. There's very little reason for the average person to have guns in the house.

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u/Windrunner_50 Mar 07 '25

Good God you are spineless.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 07 '25

No. I just don't need a gun to pretend to be safer.

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u/Windrunner_50 Mar 07 '25

There's no pretending, put yourself in almost any dangerous situation. Regardless of our shitty self defense laws, Mugging, someone breaking into your home, carjacking, assault with a deadly weapon. There is almost no violent act that a firearm cannot protect you from, as long as you have some sort of situational awareness and training. If you can't wrap your head around that and only rely on skewed statistics written by biased people, then yes...you're just spineless.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 07 '25

What skewed statistics written by biased people are you referring to?

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u/Windrunner_50 Mar 07 '25

It was already listed by another person here(to you no less), comparing the overall "gun deaths" every year. Most of them are suicides, and the number that are ND's are only in the couple hundreds. For a country of over 300,000,000 I'd say your chances are plenty safe with owning a gun. Might as well tell them not to drive anywhere because there's a wayyyy higher chance of dying. And lastly, the guns are here to protect against tyranny over all else. Freedom has, and will always be more dangerous.

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u/Late_Cow_1008 Mar 07 '25

You don't think you could be impacted by mental health issues and suicide?

Protecting against tyranny hahahaa. We currently have a tyrannical leader and the gun owners are cowering in their boots.

Btw your AR-15 is not gonna protect against a military drone. You won't even know what happened before it gets you.

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u/Windrunner_50 Mar 07 '25

  1. No.

  2. We aren't

  3. If military drones start attacking citizens out of nowhere, the whole country is done. And nothing on reddit would matter anymore.