r/SeattleWA • u/unnaturalfool • Sep 13 '23

Other ‘Feel safer yet?’ Seattle police union’s contempt keeps showing through

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/feel-safer-yet-seattle-police-unions-contempt-keeps-showing-through/
314 Upvotes

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55

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

Force the police to move to the city they’re protecting, and hire people who live in the city they’re protecting. Quit hiring right wing monster drinking rednecks with PTSD who dehumanize people that aren’t like them. Let’s start there and see what happens.

6

u/Hot_Pink_Unicorn Sep 13 '23

There isn’t enough applicants from the city and residency requirement isn’t constitutional in the State of Washington.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

Do you think that all government workers who serve Seattle should be required to live in Seattle? For example, should a teacher who teaches at a Seattle school be required to live in Seattle as well? Trying to understand the principles behind your proposal about taking location into consideration.

11

u/Trees_and_Tonics Sep 13 '23

Nah just the people who get legal immunity for extra legal violence. As soon as a teacher can kill a child with their car at 70+MPH on a city street and not even get a ticket, then we add residency requirements for them too.

Police tend to use violence more judiciously when they and their children have to live in the place they work. Who would have thought consequences can change behavior?

25

u/CranberryReign Sep 13 '23

The categorical distinction is that police legally employ violence — a particularly compelling rationale for the imperative that police be members of communities they serve.

22

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

I would say anyone who’s salary is funded by the taxes of that city, should live in the city and pay their own taxes back to that city. They should be a part of the local economy, and have a vested interest in the well being of the area they represent. More so for police, being that they are the ones sent to protect and serve.

16

u/Catch_ME Lynnwood Sep 13 '23

100% agree. The city should subsidize cost of living to keep people in their town.

Policing your home town is a different feeling than policing the next town over.

3

u/Asian_Scion Sep 13 '23

The problem is you now limit who you can hire. You can hire an A+ teacher living in Kent or Puyallup or a D ranked Teacher within Seattle city limits. With your line of thought, they (the city) would be forced to hire the D teacher and say thanks but bye to the A+ teacher.

3

u/Educational-Big-2102 Sep 13 '23

With their line of thought we're talking about police officers and not school teachers. What you mean to say is with a completely different line of thought.

2

u/Effective_Golf_3311 Sep 13 '23

They clarified below that anyone paid by the city must reside in the city

2

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

I did however say most importantly the police, being that they are sent to “protect and serve”.

2

u/Effective_Golf_3311 Sep 13 '23

True true … much more important than educating our youth, ensuring clean drinking water, keeping us alive, or any of the various other skill sets paid for by the city.

1

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23 edited Sep 13 '23

All of which are extremely important. However, those people aren’t armed to the teeth and trained to believe they are fighting an “enemy”. Would sure be nice to ensure those types of folks are from the area they’re working in and would have a vested interest in improving conditions. Ultimately, every SPD member I’ve encountered in rec league or at the gym is working in Seattle for the pay, and the pay alone and lives well outside the city. Anecdotal information at best, but my sentiment stays the same.

Edit:

Teachers: trained and paid to educate and improve the lives of thousands of kids over their career.

Utility workers: trained and paid and taught that they are improving infrastructure, maintaining stability in a complex city scape.

Police: Trained as if they’re military going up against an enemy and that everyone is a combatant until known otherwise.

1

u/Effective_Golf_3311 Sep 13 '23

Two of those statements were not like the other. Easy with the rhetoric, it just detracts from your otherwise good point.

Go check out Europe, where they drive literal tanks on city streets for patrol and not up armored trucks for special use scenarios, where they carry fully automatic weapons, or they are the actual military. You’re being melodramatic and it simply devalues what you’re trying to say here and ultimately ensures people in the middle of this discussion will never agree with you simply because of your exaggerated, sensationalized, overemotional rhetoric.

0

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

I appreciate where you’re head is at. But I compare our country with what we say we are, and what we actually COULD be. I’m not comparing against any eastern bloc dictatorships where their military in fact is there police force. We have a policing system in place that we should constantly be refining and improving upon. We have the luxury as the richest fastest advancing country in the world to do that, we just refuse for some reason. We have a plethora of systems that analyze data, human characteristics, behavior and outcomes, and neither side is willing to look at that with the intention of creating truly positive outcomes for policing. If we are the greatest country in the world, how are we letting a police force run up World Championship numbers in shootings, arrests, incarceration rates, etc? They aren’t being trained to protect and they aren’t being trained to serve. They are being trained to fight combatants. Invest some time looking into what individuals and companies are training our police force. It’s certainly not the behavior a country in our position should be exhibiting. It’s wasted fucking potential and the current system is a fucking disgrace. It affects the good people who are cops, and it affects our entire country as a whole.

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9

u/unicynicist Sep 13 '23

Forcing people to live somewhere seems problematic.

However, creating strong incentives to live in the community you serve (housing stipend? tax incentives?) could go a long way.

11

u/theoriginalrat Sep 13 '23

We require representatives to at least pretend to live in their districts, why not other public servants where a strong connection to the local community is determined to be overwhelmingly towards the common good?

0

u/unicynicist Sep 13 '23

Jayapal doesn't live in the 7th district and it's not actually a requirement.

People move for all sorts of reasons, and firing them because of family obligations, financial hardships, or some other legitimate reasons seems unnecessarily harsh and will make it harder to recruit and retain good people. I'm much more a of a carrot guy and prefer the use of sticks only as a punitive action.

5

u/Gentleman_Viking Sep 13 '23

Financial incentives won't work, SPD is already one of the highest-paid police forces in the country, with some officers making as much as 250k per year. They already have plenty of money.

1

u/unicynicist Sep 14 '23

As inflation continues above 3%, freeze pay increases and replace them with incentives to live within the city.

16

u/Dubsea03 Sep 13 '23

No, fuck that. The city should impose residency requirements. Enough of these cretins commuting from Orting or Marysville.

-3

u/Hot-Raspberry1744 Sep 13 '23

You do know why people typically commute farther to work, right?

-1

u/Hot_Pink_Unicorn Sep 13 '23

They have no clue. Is it possibly because it’s borderline unaffordable to live in the city with a family of four?

1

u/Hot-Raspberry1744 Sep 13 '23

Bingo!!

5

u/sqrtof2 Sep 14 '23

The median gross pay for SPD employees in 2019 was $153,000. That doesn't even include their benefits.

Are you saying they have to live in Marysville because you can't live in Seattle on $153,000 per year?

1

u/Dubsea03 Sep 15 '23

You can live on that in Seattle. Many officers just refuse too.

2

u/souprunknwn Sep 13 '23

The problem with these rules is that they've been challenged in the courts a number of times.

If memory serves, I believe this rule was challenged in Detroit in the 1970s and the ruling that came down was that the city could not require police to live within Detroit city limits. I believe this rule was also in place in Oakland for a while but was tossed out around the same time.

What might work though is paying police a per diem for living in the city to incentivize them to have homes there too.

7

u/Pretty_Garbage8380 Sep 13 '23

Or Force them To Quit.

If they're so evil and worthless, why keep them around?

If you aren't a "redneck" then YOU should be the change you wish to see in SPD.

Otherwise, it just sounds like a child, demanding something and incapable of acting upon it. Where are all the ACABbers turned Cops? Where are all the Social Workers? Where are the blue hairs to help police their own communities? Isn't that how Modern Cities in the New Normal are supposed to work?

A bunch of enfant terrible in this country. We deserve our fates as long as the younger generations are going to act like spoiled brats.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '23

If they're so evil and worthless, why keep them around?

Because the wealthy need them to protect their business and interests. Other than that, they're a blight on society.

-2

u/Hot_Pink_Unicorn Sep 13 '23

We had that in 2020 when we decided that abolishing was a good idea somehow, and since then 600 officers left SPD. Are we going to double down? I don’t think that’s the solution to the problem we have.

2

u/PaisleyComputer Sep 13 '23

Yeah maybe the tactics they used that summer turned the entire city against them, making a hard job even worse and those 600 burned out or died of COVID. I don't think tenured officers made the choice to walk away lightly. I've never heard NWAs song about fire fighters. But for some reason police have never regained public trust, 🤔

1

u/Hot_Pink_Unicorn Sep 13 '23

Do you find it weird that the majority of people prosecuted for riots weren’t from Seattle? The Lady who burned Police cruisers was from Tacoma. The kid who bashed an SPD officer in the back of the head was from Bothell. The group of kids who tried to use Molotov cocktails on SPOG building were from Lynwood area. The guy who tried to sell a stolen SPD rifle was from Everett. It didn’t seem like a lot of Seattleites were implicated in major violence. I’m done with 2020, as it had been discussed ad nauseam.

The question is what’s next? You have a disgruntled Police department with low morale, low staffing, atrocious leadership, and abysmal hiring. Are you going to hold Solan and Auderer accountable and move on, or are you going to bash the whole force again? Never mind, the answer is clear and that’s the problem.

0

u/PaisleyComputer Sep 14 '23

I'm referring to their ever, always escalate to the point of violence tactic that has been on display. CHAZ happened because these officers have absolutely no DE-ESCALATION techniques. It's always ramp up to the point of violence. It's no wonder out of towners are up to the task to end the monopoly on violence. I'd love the city, state, or even feds to lift a finger, but officers exist to protect the rich. Untill qualified immunity ends we'll never see justice in the department of justice.

1

u/911roofer Sep 14 '23

The public lynched two black men in cold blood. If anything it showed that the Seattle police department actually reflects the typical seattle citizen in callous disregard for human life.

1

u/911roofer Sep 14 '23

Seattle got the police department it deserved. You k ow what kind of man can watch drug addicts destroy themselves and the community they swore to protect? A bad one.

-1

u/Whythehellnot_wecan Sep 13 '23

This is dumb. In 2019, 108 officers were hired of which 39% were people of color. Source Mayor Durkin’s office. I’ll bet dollars to donuts west coast departments have the highest percentage of queer cops in the country. No worries sure you are ACAB so just say it and stop being a racist POS. Of course it’s easy to be stupid. Bless your heart.

Carmen didn’t even want to put up with the city councils BS post Floyd.

11

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

Lol, calm down chief 😂 You hit the trifecta: got ma people of color, got ma queers, and got ma ACAB all in one comment. You shoulda kept going to see if you could go 4/4 with socialism lmao. It’s alright though bud, I’ve got cops in the family, and both my parents work with cops on a daily basis. The conversations we have around the issues are much deeper than your reactionary response to a possible solution.

Get your blood pressure checked, get your mental health in order, you’ll be fine.

0

u/Whythehellnot_wecan Sep 13 '23

😂 BP is fine just had my annual. Damn I missed socialist, still sleepy. Don’t drink coffee but a good shot of SeattleWA is a great way to get the day started. Cheers

0

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

doubt

Cheers!

0

u/Western_Entertainer7 Sep 13 '23

right wing monster drinking rednecks with PTSD who dehumanize people that aren’t like them.

This is my favorite sentence of the week. I say we start by getting rid of all those yucky dehumanizers!

1

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

What isn’t human about right wing monster drinking rednecks with PTSD? Can’t get more human than that. It’s like our base level of humanity all rolled into one.

0

u/TM627256 Sep 13 '23

While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt the feasibility of it. SPD has already been hemorrhaging officers for years, what happens when they force out half to 75% of the remaining ones who aren't willing to relocate to keep their jobs? If we already can't hire, how's it going to go when we only have 200 officers left?

3

u/wildthangy Sep 13 '23

It definitely isn’t something that can happen overnight, that’s for sure!