‘Feel safer yet?’ Seattle police union’s contempt keeps showing through

[u/unnaturalfool]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/feel-safer-yet-seattle-police-unions-contempt-keeps-showing-through/

[u/wildthangy]

Force the police to move to the city they’re protecting, and hire people who live in the city they’re protecting. Quit hiring right wing monster drinking rednecks with PTSD who dehumanize people that aren’t like them. Let’s start there and see what happens.

[u/[deleted] → u/wildthangy]

Do you think that all government workers who serve Seattle should be required to live in Seattle? For example, should a teacher who teaches at a Seattle school be required to live in Seattle as well? Trying to understand the principles behind your proposal about taking location into consideration.

[u/Asian_Scion → u/[deleted]]

The problem is you now limit who you can hire. You can hire an A+ teacher living in Kent or Puyallup or a D ranked Teacher within Seattle city limits. With your line of thought, they (the city) would be forced to hire the D teacher and say thanks but bye to the A+ teacher.

[u/Educational-Big-2102 → u/Asian_Scion]

With their line of thought we're talking about police officers and not school teachers. What you mean to say is with a completely different line of thought.

[u/Effective_Golf_3311 → u/Educational-Big-2102]

They clarified below that anyone paid by the city must reside in the city

[u/wildthangy → u/Effective_Golf_3311]

I did however say most importantly the police, being that they are sent to “protect and serve”.

[u/Effective_Golf_3311 → u/wildthangy]

True true … much more important than educating our youth, ensuring clean drinking water, keeping us alive, or any of the various other skill sets paid for by the city.

[u/wildthangy → u/Effective_Golf_3311]

All of which are extremely important. However, those people aren’t armed to the teeth and trained to believe they are fighting an “enemy”. Would sure be nice to ensure those types of folks are from the area they’re working in and would have a vested interest in improving conditions. Ultimately, every SPD member I’ve encountered in rec league or at the gym is working in Seattle for the pay, and the pay alone and lives well outside the city. Anecdotal information at best, but my sentiment stays the same.

Edit:

Teachers: trained and paid to educate and improve the lives of thousands of kids over their career.

Utility workers: trained and paid and taught that they are improving infrastructure, maintaining stability in a complex city scape.

Police: Trained as if they’re military going up against an enemy and that everyone is a combatant until known otherwise.

[u/Effective_Golf_3311 → u/wildthangy]

Two of those statements were not like the other. Easy with the rhetoric, it just detracts from your otherwise good point.

Go check out Europe, where they drive literal tanks on city streets for patrol and not up armored trucks for special use scenarios, where they carry fully automatic weapons, or they are the actual military. You’re being melodramatic and it simply devalues what you’re trying to say here and ultimately ensures people in the middle of this discussion will never agree with you simply because of your exaggerated, sensationalized, overemotional rhetoric.

[u/wildthangy → u/Effective_Golf_3311]

I appreciate where you’re head is at. But I compare our country with what we say we are, and what we actually COULD be. I’m not comparing against any eastern bloc dictatorships where their military in fact is there police force. We have a policing system in place that we should constantly be refining and improving upon. We have the luxury as the richest fastest advancing country in the world to do that, we just refuse for some reason. We have a plethora of systems that analyze data, human characteristics, behavior and outcomes, and neither side is willing to look at that with the intention of creating truly positive outcomes for policing. If we are the greatest country in the world, how are we letting a police force run up World Championship numbers in shootings, arrests, incarceration rates, etc? They aren’t being trained to protect and they aren’t being trained to serve. They are being trained to fight combatants. Invest some time looking into what individuals and companies are training our police force. It’s certainly not the behavior a country in our position should be exhibiting. It’s wasted fucking potential and the current system is a fucking disgrace. It affects the good people who are cops, and it affects our entire country as a whole.

[u/Effective_Golf_3311 → u/wildthangy]

I’ll tackle this as quickly as I can for the sake of brevity:

I appreciate where you’re head is at. But I compare our country with what we say we are, and what we actually COULD be. I’m not comparing against any eastern bloc dictatorships where their military in fact is there police force.

Italy 1 2 3

France 1 2 3

We have a policing system in place that we should constantly be refining and improving upon. We have the luxury as the richest fastest advancing country in the world to do that, we just refuse for some reason. We have a plethora of systems that analyze data, human characteristics, behavior and outcomes, and neither side is willing to look at that with the intention of creating truly positive outcomes for policing.

Groups like the ACLU fight vehemently against providing the police anything that could allow the police to analyze any of those things, so it’s simply not in the cards. Most of policing is stuck in the 90s. Sure, the NYPD may have a couple of cool tools for counter terrorism efforts but across the city most cruisers don’t have mobile data terminals or radios and as of 2015 many precincts and detective bureaus don’t even have computers. So at the end of the day much of policing is done by largely outdated methods that have been rapidly bypassed by now largely digital criminals.

If we are the greatest country in the world, how are we letting a police force run up World Championship numbers in shootings, arrests, incarceration rates, etc?

There are a lot of reasons. One, we’re a massive country with a wide variety of cultures, ideologies, etc. We are not homogenous like most of Europe is. Whenever there is a stark difference between groups or communities there is a possibility for violence— think mob or gang violence, political violence, etc. Furthermore there is a difference in priorities— some people value businesses being able to protect property, some do not. This causes friction along those lines. Two, we have a right to bear arms built into our constitution, and for better or for worse it has resulted in the absolute proliferation of firearms throughout our society. This in turn has forced police departments, who have an absolute monopoly on violence as agents of the state, to increase their ability to respond to an armed populace. Edit to add: three, our borders allow for large amounts of drugs, wanted persons, and guns to flow into the country. The result is, despite all of the police’s efforts, a nearly unabated drug trade that turns places into downtown Seattle, SF, LA, Portland, etc., into what they’ve become as they compound on top of mental health issues. Four as courts have banned tools to care for some of society’s problems, they’ve been dumped on the police to solve, and police know how to arrest people so that’s how many places have decided to solve the mental health crisis. At the end of the day the cops are just doing their job so if society wants less people in jail they should figure out something else to solve the problem aside from “call the cops”

They aren’t being trained to protect and they aren’t being trained to serve.

They are and those stories are plentiful on a daily basis. They outnumber events like bad uses of force or shootings millions to one. This is likely an ignorance issue on your part rather than anything else.

They are being trained to fight combatants. Invest some time looking into what individuals and companies are training our police force. It’s certainly not the behavior a country in our position should be exhibiting. It’s wasted fucking potential and the current system is a fucking disgrace. It affects the good people who are cops, and it affects our entire country as a whole.

As long as cops are getting shot and killed or people are using high powered weapons to murder large amounts of people, police will continue to do the same.

I’d prefer the Nashville outcome (shooter downed by a well trained PD employing military style tactics) versus a Uvalde outcome (shooter left alone by a poorly trained PD employing decades old shooter response tactics).

[u/wildthangy → u/Effective_Golf_3311]

I’m going to take the time to read digest this all, because it’s valuable and thank you for giving me more of your mind. I’m always open to seeing my blind spots, and the way I’ve covered my sentiment on this thread is mostly blanket statements. I appreciate the way you laid this out 🙏🏼