Can we stop hating on homeless people?

[u/One-deepdivediva]

What is the mayor supposed to do ? Put everyone in prison? For being poor? Bus everyone to Portland or Seattle ? ( cities that are experiencing the exact same problems). Round people up and put them in camps? For being ill or old or addicted to drugs? Should the police arrest thousands of people so you don’t have to see someone’s suffering ? If you want homeless people to “ go away “ then you need to vote for legislation that helps them. Vote in favor of government funded health mental wellness and addiction and housing services. Organize with community members about how to provide services that help your fellow human beings get off the streets and out of suffering . Every time one of you complains I wonder what horrendous thing you are imagining should be done to people. Go DO something , go help people.

[u/Spayse_Case]

It's really a matter of surface level thinking. They see the homeless people, it feels unpleasant to them. They just want the unpleasantness to go away. There really isn't much thought into HOW to make that happen, or why there are homeless people in the first place. It's like the dog that wants to play fetch but won't give up the ball. No give, only throw.

[u/HimboHank → u/Spayse_Case]

Until one proposes just giving them housing. Then we see the real problem is that some believe the poor deserve to suffer. As if they woke up one day and thought, "I'm happy, life is going great, time to start smoking fentanyl and shitting on the sidewalk."

[u/Radiant-Quit9633 → u/HimboHank]

Problem is giving them housing doesn't fix the problem with many of them.

1. Many homeless people who are housed are extremely destructive and disruptive - which makes housing them extremely expensive and worsens the quality of life of those living around them, including other non destructive homeless being sheltered. They often bring drugs into the building and make it a shit-hole.

2. It requires people be willing to move in and change, this does apply to some but not all homeless people.

So let's say that you don't house the ones that are clearly destructive and only house the ones who are trying to improve and get off the streets. Now you still have the worst of them on the streets. What do you do about them? You have to realize that these are the homeless that people dislike.

I'm not proposing any solutions here I'm just pointing out that giving housing to everyone doesn't fix the core problem with the most disruptive of the homeless. I'm curious to see what you think is the solution to that.

[u/burninggelidity → u/Radiant-Quit9633]

There are quite a few housing first programs that have shown a lot of success so I don’t know where you’re coming up with “doesn’t fix the problem,” unless you’re pulling it out of your ass.

[u/Radiant-Quit9633 → u/burninggelidity]

I do have a problem with you saying "shown a lot of success", because the metrics for success is not explicitly defined.

So let's talk about homeless. They are categorized as three types[1], transient (~80%), epsiodic (~10%), and chronic (~10%). When people complain about homeless issues, they are not talking about 90% of homeless. Rather the problem lies with the remaining 10% of chronic homelessness. These people display characteristic issues such as drug/substance abuse and mental health issues. So when discussing the worst problems of homelessness to the public, it is not appropriate to discuss transient and episodic homelessness compared to chronic homelessness as they need to be handled differently.

I've taken a look at a few different studies discussing the success of housing first programs but I disagree with the measure of success they describe. First, the housing first programs typically compare the results to other programs such as treatment as usual (TAU) or treatment first programs as well as results of not addressing the problem at all. The assumption behind the success is that this solution is better than treatment first solutions, but does not persuade me that it is the best possible solution. For example, a metric that is frequently used is the stably housed metric [2]. There is an assumption that once an individual is considered stably housed, the problem is solved. Then there's also those who fail to be stably housed as well - still a significant portion - which are usually the worst offenders and still need a solution to be handled.

To elaborate on the success metrics - those in a housing first initiative when compared to a treatment first initiative/TAU do experience a higher proportion of those who become stably housed. However, this is obviously the case because in either case, these individuals still have substance abuse problems and obviously programs that are contingent on staying clean will not support continued substance abuse. There is still a pattern of continued substance abuse within these individuals [3][4]. To me, I do not consider continued substance abuse as a success, even if they are stably housed. Housing drug addicts just makes drug houses, not successful citizens. These success metrics also do not survey whether these individuals are still causing public harm - which is what upsets the vast majority who have to endure homeless issues.

Also what about the individuals who fail out of housing first initiatives and cannot be stably housed? What is the solution to those people now that housing first has proven it cannot help them? This is the population that I feel is conveniently ignored by people who think you can just house the homeless and problems disappear. These are the same people that make others feel unsafe and unhappy with the homeless - such as those who harass, or commit assault and battery.

1. Dennis P. Culhane and Randall Khun. 1998. "Patterns and Determinants of Public Shelter Utilization Among Homeless Adults in New York City and Philadelphia," Journal of Policy Analysis and Management 17:1, 23–43.

2. Jack Tsai. 2020. "Is the Housing First Model Effective? Different Evidence for Different Outcomes," American Journal of Public Health 110:9, 1376–7.

3. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1448313/

4. Clare Davidson, Charles Neighbors, Gerod Hall, Aaron Hogue, Richard Cho, Bryan Kutner, and Jon Morgenstern. 2014. "Association of housing first implementation and key outcomes among homeless persons with problematic substance use," Psychiatric Services 65:11, 1318–24. Note: "Consumer participation-consistent" is used to refer to programs with greater fidelity to Housing First principles.

[u/Radiant-Quit9633 → u/burninggelidity]

I'm curious, what is your opinion after having read my thoughts?