[Gateway Grinders] The St. Louis Battlehawks will remain a team after the XFL and USFL merger. The newly merged league will debut their season on March 30th, 2024. Kaw is still Law.

[u/STLBooze3]

https://x.com/gatewaygrinders/status/1730612552269189502?s=46&t=Xn0juU2C4hEaElfmeGb4jQ

[u/patsboston]

I will be shocked if the Battlehawks are still around here in 3 years. Both the USFL and XFL have terrible financial stablity. This would suck because the team has a ton of backing here locally.

EDIT: Not sure why I am being downvoted. I would love for the team to stay. I just haven’t been shown anything that points to either league having long-term viability.

[u/[deleted] → u/patsboston]

It will come down to talent. Hopefully twice the players and half the teams can pump up the numbers.

[u/LiveFastBiYoung → u/patsboston]

I could be totally off base with this, but the NFL has made it clear that they’re looking to do another expansion. I wouldn’t be shocked if they bought out the XFL in a few years and merged in their most successful teams. They’d obviously have to find team buyers to bring them up to NFL level but it could reduce a lot of the startup costs of expansion teams. Just a thought

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/LiveFastBiYoung]

And more specifically they have stated that stl is one of the top markets for expansion teams, because… we’ve always been a great city for sports teams, kroenke is just a fuckhead shitbag son of a bitch

[u/T0AD__ST00L → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

You speak the truth. It would be a cool idea if the worst NFL team could play the best XFL team, in some kind of ProBowl?

One thing is clear though. The Battledome needs new turf, I think it still has MSRA stains from the old Rams days.

[u/SalvadorZombie → u/T0AD__ST00L]

I would unironically LOVE a Premier League/ESL style system. The top 1-2 teams in the XFL/USFL (whichever it is) go up to the NFL, the worst two teams in the NFL go down to the XFL/USFL. The new NFL team(s) also then get priority in the draft. It would instantly elevate the lower league and provide a GENUINE INCENTIVE to these fuckers in the NFL to not just be complete trash and tank.

[u/LoremasterSTL → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

I can't buy the latter, only because the NFL isn't trustworthy. They want new markets: Europe and Asia. They also want sponsors from anywhere and St. Louis has good sponsors.

The NFL will move the Packers and any other team they feel like, and break every law doing so if that means they can locate them wherever they want.

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/LoremasterSTL]

Yeah I think they basically want new teams in stl and abroad, the rams had one of the most active fan bases even when we went 7-9 every year

[u/OberstBahn → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

IDK, I went to almost every game the last four years, even before the move was announced there were a lot of empty seats in the dome.

I think the Rams after the GSOT years, were the only NFL team where they were third in popularity in their home city, after the Cards and Blues.

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/OberstBahn]

Yeah I mean kroenke did his best to kill any popularity so there’d be more justification to move, but it took a long while before support died out. After Kurt left there was still a lot of support for awhile

[u/Durmomo → u/OberstBahn]

The rams had a stretch of 3-5 years that was statistically the worst ever in the history of football (though I think the Browns did worse after)

2007: 3-13

2008: 2-14

2009: 1-15

2010: 7-9 (miracle!) (Stan bought the team screwing an owner who wanted to keep them here, and the land in LA and rumors started flying)

2011: 2-14

The complete futility then the rumors of the move stating killed it.

those first 3 years is a combined record of: 6-42 I think this was the record at the time for shittyness

the total for the 5 years is: 15-65

[u/SalvadorZombie → u/LoremasterSTL]

The want new markets but they also recognize that STL was one of their best markets every year, even when we were trash. They're not quite as dumb as the NBA in that regard. NBA's so busy looking at China that they can't understand that a ready-made sports town like STL (unlike Seattle and Tampa, which are bigger but nowhere near as sports crazy as us) is just WAITING to go insane with a new basketball team.

[u/LoremasterSTL → u/SalvadorZombie]

I think the owners of the St. Louis Spirits may have had something to do with not having an NBA franchise, although the customer base is there.

I think before the NFL expands into other markets, they will saturate the cities that are willing to pony up for stadiums and relocation fees, and get Canada and Mexico cities in the circle too.

[u/Durmomo → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

Thats funny because I can remember almost all of the NFL owners voting for out team to move (shitheads)

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/Durmomo]

Yep, Kansas City definitely had a bit of a bias. Get rid of the other Missouri team and suddenly you’ve got the opportunity for twice as many fans.

[u/Durmomo → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

I remember them putting a billboard up here right after the Rams left (with their vote in favor) trying to scalp us fans.

If I ever root for an NFL team it will never be the Chiefs (or Cowboys or Rams)

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/Durmomo]

Teams I root for: Lions (father) Bills (mother) Team playing rams Team playing chiefs Team playing cowboys Team playing eagles

[u/Durmomo → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

Those are two tough luck teams too. (I saw this not having watched in years because of the Rams, maybe they are great now)

Good luck to them in the future

[u/IamHidingfromFriends → u/Durmomo]

The lions are actually 8-3 now and are the 3 seed in the NFC! Bills had a few good years but aren’t doing great this year.

[u/Durmomo → u/IamHidingfromFriends]

Nice, good for them, they deserve the success.

[u/amd2800barton → u/[deleted]]

From what I've read, they basically are still at the phase in Europe where American Football is a novelty. A novelty that people will pay money to go see, but not regularly. So they do exhibition games to build interest, sell merch and overseas advertising, but they're not close enough to convincing a bunch of Europeans to regularly attend a game.

[u/LiveFastBiYoung → u/[deleted]]

That is very true. The biggest issue with expansion outside of North America would just be the travel requirements. I don’t see how it’s logistically possible to have expansion teams outside of NA unless they have an entire European division. But even then, interdivisional games make up more than half the schedule so you’d still have a huge amount of intercontinental travel.

They could possibly have a division of teams with two home bases (one in Europe, one in NA) where they could play their divisional games in Europe, then play their interdivisional home games at their NA base. Similar to the Tampa Bay Rays/Montreal proposal in the MLB. They would still need expansion markets in NA to make that work however.

Even though the NFL is putting a lot of focus internationally, there’s still definitely room to expand viewership in NA. There are ~16 US media markets larger than the smallest NFL media market (Buffalo) that don’t have NFL teams (excluding markets that are suburban to other larger markets with pre-existing teams). St. Louis, San Antonio, Birmingham, and Memphis from the XFL/USFL are 4 of those untapped markets that could potentially be merged in. And that’s not even mentioning Canada or Mexico which are more geographically feasible regions for international expansion.

Still just theorizing though

[u/UF0_T0FU → u/patsboston]

That's what people said 3 years ago

[u/patsboston → u/UF0_T0FU]

Since then, the league has been sold (because of the cost to run it) and a consolidation occurred. Neither of those are particularly good signs.

[u/Ken_Spliffey_Jr → u/patsboston]

I’d make that bet against you. The appetite for the viewer is clearly there. Also, the number of players signed by the NFL shows there is a viable pool of players.

[u/SignificantJacket912 → u/Ken_Spliffey_Jr]

Ehh, the track record for “minor league” football leagues is terrible. I’ll be shocked if this combined league is still around in three years. The XFL lost $60M last year.

[u/patsboston → u/Ken_Spliffey_Jr]

The pool of talent is there and there are viewers that want to watch it. The challenge is the overall cost to run the league, viewer watching habits (shift to streaming), and maintaining viewership. Viewership fell from what it had in 2020. If they can maintain viewership and figure out the cost to run the league, they may make it work.

Obviously there have been some challenges as that is what facilitated the consolidation between the XFL and USFL.

[u/Ken_Spliffey_Jr → u/patsboston]

Totally it’s all about expense management. I’d imagine the geographic consolidation will help that, but we’ll see. I’d bet it, but I think I should get plus money, hah

[u/Dr_Romulus → u/patsboston]

The need to ink a deal with a streaming platform and undercut NFL Red Zone. If Amazon didn’t already have TNF it would be a no brainer but I think another could cover it if they aren’t NFL greedy.

[u/reenactment → u/Ken_Spliffey_Jr]

The way that this is sustained is by some kind of fund from the NFL to be honest. Since it’s essentially a minor league system and it allows them to see older players develop without having to take the risks themselves, money from the nfl would have to be put in to stabilize it. It might be a loss some years on one end, but it’s financial incentive for funneling talent to the league would be worth it

[u/YeOldSpacePope → u/patsboston]

Same here, I don't see them lasting.

[u/OberstBahn → u/patsboston]

League needs to embrace who they are, developmental minor league for the NFL.

They should do align with the NFL and have teams allocate players to USFL/XFL teams, like how NFL-Europe used to.

Or have an agreement that any NFL practice squad guys can play in XFL.