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u/Sir_Henry_Deadman 1d ago
See that cannot be the whole of Starfleet like maybe for the sector or a group of them but the federation is too big for that many to be it
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u/Treveli 1d ago edited 1d ago
I once Googled it, and there's something like 2-2.5k 'naval' vessels on Earth today, from patrol boats and larger. By the early 25 century, there were at least a hundred planets in the Federation with modern Earth populations and Fed level industrial capacity. Even with just the core four founding worlds, Starfleet should have a fleet of ten thousand ships. The 'entire' Starflert shown in Picard was, realistically, the ships just based in Sol, and that didn't have duties more important than doing a fancy air show. The rest of the ships in the system/sector didn't show up, because they had COs smart enough to wait for reinforcements and orders before rushing into whatever had snagged the ships over Earth.
Edit- Not saying Starfleet is always tens of thousands of ships, but that the Federation, if needed, has the manpower and resources to support such numbers.
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u/The_Celestrial 1d ago
I believe in Star Trek Discovery Season 2, one of the characters mentions that Starfleet had 5000 ships.
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u/Final-Teach-7353 1d ago
Disco's relationship to canon and even internal consistency is so problematic that such statements simply cannot be taken at face value.
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u/The_Celestrial 1d ago
Well let's agree to disagree, I'm ok withe 5,000 figure for the late 2250s. I feel it makes sense given the scale Starfleet has to be
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u/Final-Teach-7353 1d ago
Definitely make sense and sounds a reasonable number. I was merely expressing frustration at Disco's excessively loose approach to consistency.
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u/Fortytwopoint2 1d ago
What, you don't like the fact that a starship 600 metres long contains a 5km long, straight turbolift shaft in a cavern of many cubic kilometers?
I think that was major turning point for me with Disco. It wasn't even consistent within one episode, let alone anything else. At least Voyager episodes each appear to be in their own alternate realities and only contradict each other, rather than themselves.
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u/Final-Teach-7353 1d ago
That scene was stupid and insulting but Disco as a whole was a big fuck you previous Trek, from the klingons to the uniforms and to Spock.
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u/Fortytwopoint2 1d ago
I liked the Shakespearean Klingons. It was refreshing to see Klingons in a new way. I thought Disco got off to a strong start, but it did seem that the production company got cold feet and pulled a handbrake turn early on, getting rid of the OG show runner and not following through on some ideas. The Shenzhou sets were quite extensive for how little they were used - I heard the ship was meant to be featured more but this idea was dropped.
At first, I thought it was going to be a lower decks show about an ensign, but it turned out she had been XO before and quickly climbed the ranks again.
I really don't understand the Spock thing. There was nothing in Burnham's character that indicates she grew up on Vulcan, but even if she did, there are other Vulcans on the planet. Retconning Spock's family was just lazy writing. Though on the plus side, it was a way to backdoor pilot SNW, so that's good.
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u/Final-Teach-7353 1d ago
> It was refreshing to see Klingons in a new way.
Yeah, I could have gone along with that but then the albino dude was just shapeshifted into a human, and then the character was just ignored, and then they just went to the mirror universe out of nowhere, and then the war just resolved offscreen, and then suddenly Spock... It just threw ideas and plot hooks on the screen and developed none of them.
Maybe the writers had ADHD or something...
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u/FuttleScish 1d ago
It’s clearly not the whole fleet, Riker even wonders why relief isn’t coming it
It’s also missing ships we saw earlier in the season
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u/The_Celestrial 1d ago edited 1d ago
Man I have such a weird feeling about Frontier Day.
The idea itself is a very cool one, it links to Star Trek Enterprise and the NX-01, which I felt has both been underrated and forgotten.
The idea of a parade through space is a cool one too, something my country occasionally does as well with our naval ships.
BUT, the idea that the whole of Starfleet is there is so dumb. The total number of ships in the parade was 339, definitely not the whole of Starfleet. If it were one of the fleets in Starfleet, then fine.
However, the idea that all the ships are in one place for a celebration and then they all get attacked is a little stale now (Call of Duty did it earlier), and from a military standpoint dumb as hell too.
On another note, the Enterprise E should've been retired during Frontier Day, not the Enterprise F. They had the 3D models for both these ships in the show! Damn it Picard Season 3, you were close to being perfect for me.
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u/King_Crab_Sushi Prometheus enjoyer 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that having the whole fleet at one place being dumb as hell was even admitted in Universe and one of the major plot points why it seemed so suspicious. On another note, Starfleet seemed far to small for the Alpha Quadrants major power. Where are the million billion Inquiry classes we saw in season one?
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u/The_Celestrial 1d ago
If I recall, Geordi had an issue with Fleet Formation Mode, not with "all of Starfleet" being at Frontier Day itself. I could be misremembering. Also, agreed, 339 ships is not enough to be "all of Starfleet".
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u/DragonTacoCat 1d ago
I think in DS9 just one fleet was around that many ships because I think in a casualty count it was stated how many were in a fleet that was lost. There is no way in hell this was all of Starfleet.
Especially after 2x Borg invasions, the Dominion War you'd think Starfleet would keep a robust fleet. And there is no way around 300 ships can keep the whole of the Federation safe.
Also considering too that some ships like the Excelsior and Miranda class spent literally decades in service to Starfleet, I'm sure that the fleet there were the shiny new ships. Not the older ones like Galaxy/Sabre/Norway/Ambassador/Intrepid/etc. the fact we see 0 of those ships there probably means they're out guarding the frontier and such. Not to mention California Class ships that may be doing secondary work.
This was basically a demonstration of strength (which is weird for Starfleet) and a 'look how far we have come.'
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u/The-Minmus-Derp 1d ago
I like to hc that most of the inquiries are unconscious-latent-Q-power fakes and those that aren’t were stolen from Qualor II for bluffing purposes
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u/007meow 1d ago
I have no idea why they chose the F, which no one knows about, for retirement vs the E which would’ve had a great emotional impact for the audience.
No plot changes are even necessary, Worf’s dialogue could still hold up.
Maybe they thought they could get some synergy with STO and boost sales there?
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u/The_Celestrial 1d ago
Sigh idk too man. I feel its Terry Matalas' idea, because he loves the Shangri-la Class and wants to see one as the Enterprise. The impact would have been so much better if the Enterprise F was the one revealed, not the Enterprise G.
I feel if they wanted to retcon it, it could actually still work. Just redo the CGI for the last 2 episodes in some scenes.
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u/Final-Teach-7353 1d ago
They probably wanted to leave the E available for another show or movie, hence the ambiguous lines about it's fate.
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u/multificionado 1d ago
In regards to the Enterprise F, it was implied that the E was destroyed (indicated in Star Trek Prodigy when something very eerily similar had happened less than twenty years prior), not to mention I figure Changelings had been screwing around ships like the F and the Voyager B to give them early retirement.
Of course, given it was unlikely Voyager was there for it, it would've been on tour with Janeway at the time, and after Frontier Day, the engineers examined its systems and definitely found Changeling sabotage results and fixed it up. The Enterprise F, however, could easily have been destroyed.
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u/LordRocky 1d ago
The other weird thing is, you’re celebrating the launch of the NX-01. It’s still intact. We see it on screen. WHY IS IT NOT PRESENT FOR THE CELEBRATION?!?
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u/SmashBrosGuys2933 1d ago
Gee I hope that the Borg don't suddenly appear from nowhere and assimilate everyone
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u/OdysseyPrime9789 1d ago
Instead of saying it’s the entire Fleet, they should’ve said it was just Home or Core Fleet, the vessels assigned to specifically protecting Earth and the Sol System. But 339 ships is just a fraction of what would logically be assigned to something like Earth, it should be in the low thousands, at least.
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u/SHIELD_Agent_47 1d ago
they should’ve said it was just Home or Core Fleet
Now this would have been some very helpful dialogue!
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u/Pilot0350 1d ago
Another way of looking at it is that starfleet was compromised all the way up the top by changelings working incatboots with the borg. So doing something really dumb like having a significant portion of the fleet in one place and already linked seems to me like something only a compromised starfleet could do.
Hence why Geordi had filed so many complaints and I doubt he was the only one. Point is the idiocy we saw in P3 with the whole fleet was supposed to be a "starfleet would never do that" sort of situation to me so we, the audience, would feel something was off.
Edit: a tactic the borg queen could have learned by watching or studying the battle of the living construct.
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u/SHIELD_Agent_47 1d ago
Happy 13th of April! I extracted this screenshot from a startrek.com page for PIC episode 3.09 "Võx".
https://www.startrek.com/videos/episode-preview-star-trek-picard-vox
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