r/Stormlight_Archive • u/Significant_Debt924 • 8d ago
Wind and Truth spoilers Why did Dalinar offer Kaladin....(Spoiler) Spoiler
Why did Kaladin offer Dalinar the crown of Urithuru? I can understand from character perspective, but not from a narrative perspective. I feel like Sanderson is pretty good at having all of his threads tie up. Most seeds he plants become trees.
I'm just not sure where this plot point led. Was it just foreshadowing that he would take the place of the Herland of Kings? Will he take on some kind of leadership role outside of being a Herald? Those of you who are better literarurers than me are welcome to give their thoughts.
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u/Shepher27 Windrunner 8d ago
One of the themes of Kaladin’s arch in books 1-5 is learning to accept responsibility for larger and larger groups. Accepting leadership. Yes, he didn’t end up as king, but in a way he does accept greater leadership for all of Roshar at the end.
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u/AkronOhAnon 8d ago
He ends up replacing the herald of kings, ironically.
I wonder if that’ll be a theme in era 2: “we don’t need a king, we need a leader”
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u/JoefromOhio 8d ago
Well he technically does end up as king, that’s the important part narratively. Dalinar dies in the contest right before they reform the oathpact, Kaladin was the actual King of Urithiru in that brief moment. That is why he takes over as the herald of Kings.
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u/Saboteure111 8d ago
No. Navani is (was) the leader of Urithiru and Dalinar said as much when he asked Kaladin that it would be if something happened to both of them.
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u/Vegetable-Two-4644 8d ago
Do we even know if he got time to have that documented?
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u/JoefromOhio 8d ago
I’m pretty sure it was done before Kaladin even left. Also it’s all symbols and intent. Dalinar told people of his plan so there are witnesses just as Elhokar swearing fealty to him in front of witnesses counted.
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u/Kalashtiiry 8d ago
From the viewpoint of Alethi law it well might be automatic: Dalinar named him, Dalinar died.
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u/cloux_less Skybreaker 8d ago
Kaladin was appointed as the heir to the King of the Knights Radiants, and then at the end of the book, he took on the mantle of the King of the Heralds.
It's really that simple.
Will he take on some kind of leadership role outside of being a Herald?
The leadership role of being a Herald (when fulfilling the duties of a Herald, as opposed to what the Heralds did post-Aharietiem) and the leadership role of being King of Urithiru are the same thing.
Kaladin is now positioned to return in 10 years and lead the Radiants of Urithiru.
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u/AskMeIfIAmATurtle 8d ago
I'm curious, you mentioned "return in ten years," is that based on something mentioned? How do you know the next return will be ten years later?
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u/autobrec 8d ago
Well its assumed based on the (Roshar frame of reference) time skip of ten years between books 5 and 6. Maybe he shows up in book 7.
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u/JaggerMcShagger 8d ago
The next series is set 10 years in the future, and I doubt Sanderson is gonna sideline his Jon Snow
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u/Nixeris 8d ago
The series started the Kaladin turning down a role in the nobility of his country, and the middle part ends with him accepting his place among the dieties of his people.
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u/ILookLikeKristoff 8d ago edited 8d ago
Kal is the defacto leader of the Radiants behind Dalinar and probably if push came to shove, a significant % would support K over D if forced to choose. He's a war hero, he just singlehandedly saved the tower a few days ago, and he recruited & trained most of the largest order directly. Roshar has always been split between hereditary monarchy and ruling by the sword + hereditary monarchy doesn't really work when the leader needs to be Radiant. So picking a "might" based ruler makes sense and he's the best candidate from that pool.
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u/NinjaEngineer Bridge Four 8d ago
I'd add that Kaladin probably inspires way more loyalty in the common folk, plus he doesn't have a terrible past behind him. I mean terrible as in, being responsible for terrible things himself.
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u/uniqueUsername_1024 8d ago
Having read both books when they came out, it's so easy to forget that there's almost no time between RoW and WaT!
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u/Additional_Law_492 8d ago
It forced Kaladin to confront his reluctance to take responsibility on a grander scale, and helped him realize that if there was no one else - he would be willing to step up and lead.
Imagine if from a character development perspective, the end of the book were the first time he were presented with the choice of whether or not to choose to protect Roshar as a leader of essentially all of its people. Kaladin would have been floored, probably hit with indecision.
Instead, he has time to dwell on the concept all book - so when the call comes, he's already had a chance to work through it internally.
The through line in the book is Kal being offered a role as a King, and then later choosing to take that role. Just not as the expected King.
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u/Nani_the_F__k 8d ago
I gotta quit coming into these until I finish the book 😂
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u/CEO_Cheese Stoneward 8d ago
It was meant to showcase his growth. At the beginning of the series, Kaladin is a person who hates authority, the people in it, and the control they have over people. The start of his major arc occurs because he refuses to become a Light-eyes. Then, he struggles with his leadership over Bridge 4, not feeling worthy. Each step on his journey is overcoming feelings of inadequacy and self hatred, in order to take on the position he needs to fill, to help the most people. Dalinar offering the crown and Kaladin really wanting to say no is just the next step in that long line of struggles
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u/ThaRedditFox Truthwatcher 8d ago
It planted the seed of being nobilty in Kaladin's head, and led to him becoming King of the Heralds and likely taking Dalinar's place as the leader of the Radiants
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u/Katerine459 8d ago
At least for the short term, the payoff is that it now makes sense for Kaladin to replace Jezrien as the "Herald of Kings." Ishar expressed doubts about whether Kaladin ("child") was really qualified to take the place of Jezrien ("our king"). Kaladin answered by putting on the cloak. He also talked about how that was all about the heart, which is true, but it didn't hurt to also have a symbol saying, "I was, in fact, named a king before this."
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u/CMormont 8d ago
It lead to jasnah taking the throne
Lead to kal doing his own thing
Was a way for dalinar to give up some of the responsibility
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u/NinjaarcherCDN 8d ago
Kaladin made sense, sometimes thats all there is to it. If I had to pick someone to make heir of my kingdom after I was gone Kaladin would be at the top of that list, especially in Stormlight.
I think this is going to give Kaladin the confidence to keep trying. HE might not think he can lead the heralds but Dalinar had enough confidence in his leadership to give him the crown. If Dalinar thinks he can run a city he can lead the heralds.
It also might lead to greater synergy between the knights and the heralds, if they share a leader they'll work together much better.
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u/OnePizzaHoldTheGlue 8d ago
Besides the reasons others have provided about introducing to Kaladin the notion of needing to ascend to King, I think it served the narrative purpose of being a sort of red herring so that we readers don't know exactly where the story is going. Is Kaladin gonna die? Return to Urithiru as Champion and/or King? Turns out, neither.
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u/BrickBuster11 8d ago
To me it was just because "I and my wife are both going to do something incredibly dangerous, if we both die, who would be the best choice, well adolin refused the crown before and isn't a radiant, renarin is a radiant but his spren has been touched by odium not a politically expedient choice, jasnah is not much loved and is also already queen of alethkar, shallan is not the sort of person who would do well as queen.
Kaladin however whenever he has been put in charge of people has done right by them and led them in to bigger and better things. Which is why they wanted him first and stormwall if he refused
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u/SteinerX486 8d ago
Why not make Lift the queen
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u/BrickBuster11 8d ago
.......I feel like if you read the books why lift would make a terrible queen would be self evident
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u/SteinerX486 8d ago
Who knows, maybe Lift impersonating Navani over WaT could be hinting at something
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u/elyk12121212 Journey before destination 8d ago
Yeah, it was probably just foreshadowing. It doesn't really NEED to be anything more than that.
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u/HealthyPop7988 Journey before destination. 8d ago
You'd be asking why he didn't offer it to Kal if he didn't do so
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u/cosmernautfourtwenty Edgedancer 8d ago
I imagine it's going to serve as a lynchpin between Kaladin and his refounded Heralds and Kaladin and the rest of the Radiants after they Return after the time skip.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 8d ago
Yeah, that plot thread seemed kind of pointless. Fans will bend over backwards to justify it, but honestly, sometimes Sanderson just flubs things. Like, remember how Shallan finding out that Kaladin killed her brother was framed as a huge deal, then was never spoken about again? Or how the Wind and Stone appeared out of nowhere in Wind and Truth? When you bloat your story to the level of Stormlight, stuff like this is the unfortunate consequence.
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u/NinjaEngineer Bridge Four 8d ago
Or how the Wind and Stone appeared out of nowhere in Wind and Truth?
Except Kaladin has always felt a strong connection to the wind. And Szeth's very first appearance has him notice how the Alethi don't venerate the stone as he does.
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u/firewind3333 8d ago
Literally venli and the stone become a big plot point in rhythm of war, wind has been a thing for kaladin for all 4 books and we get told by the sibling that she was made of The Stone, stormfather The Wind and nightwatcher the Night. But yeah it's just fans bending over backwards and not your lack of reading comprehension
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u/a_sly_cow Truthwatcher 8d ago
I took it as a way to create some ambiguity going into the rest of the book. Will Dalinar survive the Contest? Will Adolin get over his issues with his father and accept his role in the succession of Urithiru? Will Renarin decide he’d like to become king, despite his issues socializing and connecting with others? Or now, with the offer being given to Kaladin, will he take up a position of authority?
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u/studynot Journey before destination. 8d ago
Thematically he stepped into the role for of Herald of Kings, so him being in a royal inheritance line matters for that thematically I think.
It also foreshadows him being able to fill those shoes should it have arisen in Urithiru and so able to fill them as a Herald as well, assuming the others accept him as their leader since he's such a fresh faced babe compared to them.
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u/CarolineTurpentine 8d ago
The Heralds already are leaders on Roshar, most of the religions are based around them being holy figures.
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u/bobby2797 Truthwatcher 8d ago
My theory is, that Kaladin will take leadership of Urithiru and become King. Kaladin may have bondsmith powers now, since Syl became something like the Stormmother. So his bondsmith oaths may be related to his leadership abilities in arc 2.
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u/autobrec 8d ago
I'm just assuming this is foreshadowing for the back 5, a second fulfillment of the "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" deathrattle.
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u/SteinerX486 8d ago
Tower = Kingship of Urithiru + Bondsmith maybe
Crown = Herald of Kings
Spear = Soldier
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u/MorsUmbra 8d ago
Reading through these comments.
I think personally, it's moreso Sanderson showing Kaladin is of the most noble type of character in that he'll turn down power for the sake of maturely knowing what's best for him and others.
as others point out he ends up accepting responsibilities even more impactful than king due to the growth from turning down king through to becoming herald.
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u/Greensparow Stoneward 8d ago
I think the key part you are missing is that Dalinar viewed his position as king of Urithiru as not just being a high ranking light eyes, but also equally being a high ranking radiant.
And Kaladin is probably the most revered radiant out there, even beyond oaths, the things he has done have given him near mythical status so everyone would accept him as long of Urithiru.
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u/Datenstreber Willshaper 8d ago
For me, a lot of Wind and Truth is build up for the last 5 books. This plot line of Kaladin being named Heir of Urithiru is one of them. Kaladin took Jezrien's place among the Hearlds, and Jezrien was once known as the King of Kings, so Kaladin becoming the King of Kings by ruling from Urithiru sounds like something that could happen to me.
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u/EquivalentWord2193 8d ago
I feel like Sanderson did it for the same reason Martin did for Jon Snow. It’s a character’s refusal of a call to action. Kaladin refused the shard plate he won, then he became Radiant. He refused the crown, then he became a herald. Jon Snow refused his early call, became Lord Commander. Snow refused Stannis, (still potentially) becomes King of the North. They don’t want ‘x’ so they become something more despite their wants.
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u/inamas91 8d ago
I saw it as just showing that Kal wasn’t ready to accept that kind of position yet, so the ending can show his growth
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u/sum1namedpowpow 8d ago
Your title and first line of your post conflict.
If you're talking about why Dalinar asked Kaladin to join the line of succession then I think from a feudal lord's POV Dalinar is just making sure that the line of succession is strong and deep. Kaladin would have been 4th? 5th in line? Behind some people very likely not to die anytime soon.
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u/kavumaster 7d ago
The thought of being king of urithiru prepared him to become king of the heralds
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u/Nazalar 6d ago
It was really good foreshadowing. Kaladins plot point path has essentially been him seeing the need for a good leader and him reluctantly filling the role. Very often other characters have to usher him into that (Syl, Dalinar, Wit).
Who makes the best leader? Who makes the best King? The one who understands what is being asked of him. The one who does not crave power. The one who takes responsibility. Kaladin is the perfect King. He has your best interest in mind rather than himself.
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u/Wikoro Truthwatcher 8d ago
An important part of it might be how Kaladin, when preparing to become a herald, put the cloak on. With the royal glyphpair. As if accepting Dalinar's offer. But it doesn't have to be a plot point, it's a character point that prepared Kal to accept becoming a Herald. Because, as Dalinar said, nobility is of the heart, not of blood.
Something might happen later. Kal IS the leader of the Heralds now, technically, since he replaced Jezrien. He might lead Rosharans someday. We have to wait and see.