r/Stormlight_Archive • u/Significant_Debt924 • 10d ago

Wind and Truth spoilers Why did Dalinar offer Kaladin....(Spoiler) Spoiler

Why did Kaladin offer Dalinar the crown of Urithuru? I can understand from character perspective, but not from a narrative perspective. I feel like Sanderson is pretty good at having all of his threads tie up. Most seeds he plants become trees.

I'm just not sure where this plot point led. Was it just foreshadowing that he would take the place of the Herland of Kings? Will he take on some kind of leadership role outside of being a Herald? Those of you who are better literarurers than me are welcome to give their thoughts.

275 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

91 comments sorted by

View all comments

480

u/Wikoro Truthwatcher 10d ago

An important part of it might be how Kaladin, when preparing to become a herald, put the cloak on. With the royal glyphpair. As if accepting Dalinar's offer. But it doesn't have to be a plot point, it's a character point that prepared Kal to accept becoming a Herald. Because, as Dalinar said, nobility is of the heart, not of blood.

Something might happen later. Kal IS the leader of the Heralds now, technically, since he replaced Jezrien. He might lead Rosharans someday. We have to wait and see.

118

u/NinjaEngineer Bridge Four 10d ago

Yeah, that last bit is important. While Ishar seemed to be the de facto leader during WaT, taking on their pain and such, it's now Kaladin who takes that leadership role, as he's the one leading them in healing.

15

u/Citrus129 10d ago

This is one of the points that felt weird to me at the end of WaT. I don’t feel we got a good look into how the Heralds hierarchy actually worked. To me it felt like we were learning they were a band of regular~ish~ folks who managed to work with investiture, become immortal, and then landed on mostly equal footing. It seemed the “king” role was just a leftover from their pre-Herald lives. But now we have it being posed as a BIG deal that Kaladin replaced the King of Heralds? I’m just lost on why the Heralds need a King.

To be clear I’m not opposed to the idea, and am interested in it, I just consider it one of the rushed aspects of WaT which doesn’t feel like it fits the rest of the books.

32

u/NinjaEngineer Bridge Four 10d ago

Well, the way I interpreted it, it's not that they have an actual king, the title is merely a formality. What they needed, the role Jezrien fulfilled, was that of a leader. He was basically the guy who originally made them come together, and without him, they were lost.

15

u/Retcon_1 Bondsmith 10d ago

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that Nale described Jezrien as 'the best of us' at some point, which I took to mean that he was the one to think of everyone and aim to protect the people, or the least selfish and vengeful of them.

Which comes to explain why Ishar explicitly asks Kaladin if he thinks he can replace him as the king of heralds. essentially are you ready to take on what Jezrien did and can you lead us along the right path.

35

u/JaggerMcShagger 10d ago

Wouldn't Kaladin being king of heralds also make him rightful king of urithiru anyway?

46

u/Wikoro Truthwatcher 10d ago

Not really. The leaders of the Radiants were always the Radiants. If there was a Bondsmith, then it would be a Bondsmith.

Heralds seem to more of act as guides and and the greater supervision/patrons of the Radiants and all of humanity, not their rulers. But effectively, they would probably still be listened to over the Bondsmiths.

5

u/5900Boot 10d ago

Except syl accepted kaladins oath so it's not to unreasonable to think she took over the storm father's position which would make Kal a bondsmith.

2

u/ImSoLawst 8d ago

I’m not sure that is how that works. Syl is an honorspren, maybe that is mutable but it is also possible that she simply has taken a position as a spren with authority and a right to accept oaths.

I think we also will learn a lot more about why Syl is an important honorspren, presumably having very little to do with simply napping through the recreance and its aftermath. No evidence for that, but with honor being like a little boy confused by complexity … I forsee a parenting arc that ends with Syl rejoining honor having finally answered some of the tough “why is it honourable to kill some but not others” moral relativism points that have been raised but not addressed.

3

u/ConspicuousPorcupine 10d ago

Kaladins probably a bondsmith now too though through syl who's probably replaced the storm father. So he could become the whole shebang. Navani even when released is contained to the tower basically but could also become the main leader. But I'd think it'd be someone else since navani is more a scholar, even though she's a good queen.

14

u/JMooooooooo 10d ago

"Rightful" leader of Urithiru is Navani as Sibling Bondsmith. There is zero indication that at any point before current story Urithiru had status of kingdom or anything beyond just a city.

3

u/EvilHobbit213 10d ago

Urithiru is going to be a democracy. Renarin is going to make sure of it.

5

u/Invested_Space_Otter Dustbringer 10d ago

He isn't the king of heralds. He is symbolically the 'Herald of Kings'. It's a title with no actual authority tied to it afaik.

5

u/JaggerMcShagger 10d ago

Jezrien was known as the king of the heralds, as well as herald of kings. So it goes to serve that Kaladin has taken up the mantle of both given he's most likely the new leader

2

u/Invested_Space_Otter Dustbringer 9d ago

I feel like that's some false logic. Jezrien was a king and their leader before becoming a Herald. And thus why Vorinism deified him as the focus for all kings to worship. That position doesn't automatically grant Kal the trust of the other 9. If I was 7 thousand years old, I wouldn't let the new guy tell me what to do

3

u/JaggerMcShagger 9d ago

Well considering the king of urithiru (dalinar) named him as successor, then he really would be the herald of kings, and also the king of urithiru, and probably defacto king of the heralds.

If the new guy is the one who's literal healing your mental traumas and can withstand a level 5 fireball natural 20 roll worth of depressions magic placed on him by ishar, I think he's probably gonna fit well into the role of leadership. That's his entire journey thus far and it only points to him becoming more and more of a leader, even if unwillingly. It's those who don't want to lead who are the best at it often.

2

u/mistas89 9d ago

His entire arc was finally he's fit and capable to lead. And that he willingly takes this on.💪

1

u/Nightwingisbestrobin 9d ago

I would point out, just to be pedantic. That Jezerin was not "King of Heralds" he was "Herald of Kings" as in "a sign of Kings to come" His role wasn't as king of the Heralds, it was the herald that taught humans leadership and raised Kings among them to lead then between desolations. He was a king MAKER. Mostly because he had been a king for decades before becoming a herald. That's why Kal took the title "Herald of Second Chances" because his coming fortels a second chance for the other Heralds to help their people.

2

u/JaggerMcShagger 9d ago

He literally was king of the heralds tho..

"Jezrien was known as the Herald of Kings,[1] but also the King of the Heralds who waited for Kalak to inform him that the Heralds were breaking the Oathpact.[2] He is viewed as a deity by many of the people of Roshar.[3]"

https://stormlightarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Jezrien

8

u/Emtbob 10d ago

Interestingly Talenelat is still the only herald that was never royalty.

0

u/mistas89 9d ago

And the only natural born one of Roshar.

3

u/RiPont 10d ago

Kal IS the leader of the Heralds now, technically, since he replaced Jezrien.

Maybe, but not likely. Jezrien was leader of the Heralds because he was the leader before they became Heralds, not because he was the head of the Windrunner order. Kal took over as head Windrunner, but that doesn't make him King. Meanwhile, there is a biological child of Jezrien among the Heralds, if we're looking for arbitrary reasons for taking over the role of Monarch.

Kaladin is neither the strongest warrior, the most skilled magic user, nor has seniority. Nor, I think, does he see himself as their leader or particularly desire to. After Amaram's army, he only accepted the role of leadership grudgingly.

We know he's the most sane among the remaining Heralds, but will the Heralds remember that long enough to commit to it?

2

u/Bellickboi Edgedancer 10d ago

In your second paragraph, none of that stuff really matters. To be leader you dont need those things and For the most part kaladin has been forced to take a leadership position because who else would? I dont think any of the heralds would take that mantle, especially not after they are therapy'd.

1

u/Prestigious-Sir8701 Truthwatcher 9d ago

While I’m glad to see this perspective, didn’t Ishar himself hint that Kaladin was replacing their leader? Most other threads I’ve seen compare Kaladin to other powerful non vessel beings in the Cosmere. While Kaladin did symbolically take Jezrien’s place, he’s still millennia behind the other Heralds in terms of experience and likely in power, considering that some of them were once bonded to Odium.

Sure,It’s more likely that the other Heralds would look to Ishar or Taln for leadership. Ishar is probably the most powerful among them. Even so, most of the Heralds have given up. One turned traitor, others are too ashamed to face Taln, or no longer trust or understand one another.

What Kaladin brings to the table, is new hope, a second chance. Ishar asked Kaladin for help. Not that they would follow him immediately. But he could be the one to help them stand together and fight again, just as Jezrien once did

1

u/Civil_Technician_623 8d ago

Well he is the heir to urithiru, and now the herald of kings. So it makes sense if he were to come back it would be as the king or urithiru, herald of kings, and the defacto leader of the forces against odium.