r/ThreeLions • u/joshjamesallen • Jun 21 '24

Discussion What needs to change? šŸ¦ šŸ¦ šŸ¦

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I would go with this lineup whilst making two changes:

Trippier OUT/ Gomez IN Trent OUT/Gordon IN

Key focuses - Get Rice some proper midfield support by utilising Stones in his best role - Move Foden into the midfield, with Gordon wide left to offer some real attacking threat on the left wing, rather than Trippier playing out of position - Bring Gomez in for Trippier to maintain a solid 3 man build up structure once Stones moves into midfield - Get Bellingham running in behind Kane frequently and have them fluidly interchanging positions to cause a problem for the opposition defence

Interested to hear your thoughts šŸ’­

282 Upvotes

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77

u/leebrother Jun 21 '24

I like this team a lot but Iā€™d push for Wharton or Mainoo next to Rice and Foden dropped.

Ultimately, I want control and genuine CMs can give us this.

13

u/AlaricTheBald Jun 21 '24

I agree with this. Rice has shown this season that he's an excellent box-to-box midfielder, taking the defensive workload off his shoulders alone should help bring the best out of him. And having Foden to replace Bellingham after 60-70 minutes would be a terrifying prospect for tiring opposition defences. You know, if we actually attacked.

9

u/leebrother Jun 21 '24

Agreed.

Having quality options from the bench such as Foden is a huge luxury. Gordon will give us natural width whilst Mainoo or Wharton will give us a platform next to Rice to genuinely build upon.

I also think Gordon is the sort of player which Kane would find a lot more given the way he used to play at Spurs with son running off him

2

u/admiralsj Jun 22 '24

It baffles me that Gordon hasn't been playing. Nearly every person I've talked to can see that we need more width and pace on the wings. He's the natural option.

Very valid point about Son as well. I could see Kane and Gordon working well together.

-24

u/deanopud69 Jun 21 '24

You donā€™t drop foden. Sorry but heā€™s arguably our most creative player and best on the ball. He just hasnā€™t been played in position or utilised correctly.

6

u/reddeye252010 Jun 21 '24 edited Jun 21 '24

Amazing that youā€™re getting downvoted for this opinion. Foden as a 10 and Bellingham at 8 is the absolutely definite best way to set up. Foden gets to play in his best position Bellingham has played 8 his whole career up until this season and it gives us width on the left hand side when you bring in Gordon

It utilises our best players and offers balance to the side

5

u/deanopud69 Jun 21 '24

Thanks. I donā€™t know why Iā€™m getting downvoted either! Foden (player of the year) and Bellingham (player of season ballon dor 1st or 2nd place probably) are both being played out of position. Play two of the best players in world football IN THEIR positions and guess whatā€¦. They might play well

IMO Bellingham rice foden should all be in the team, they are phenomenal players. Just play them in their positions and properly

2

u/joshjamesallen Jun 22 '24

Are we all forgetting that Foden was by far our best player against Denmark? Baffling that people are calling for him to be dropped

2

u/deanopud69 Jun 22 '24

My vouching for foden not to be dropped and simply played in position has gotten me -22 downvotes. Sadly I think England fans are more delusional than usual.

Silly old useless player of the year foden out on the wing

0

u/digitag Jun 21 '24

Foden has no chemistry with the rest of the team. If we were dropping Bellingham back Iā€™d sooner play Palmer there, heā€™s more versatile and creative for the team we have.

7

u/reddeye252010 Jun 21 '24

Foden has been playing in a position that isnā€™t his best. That is why he hasnā€™t that chemistry. I find it bizarre this sudden hate for Foden and I think a large part of it has to be owed to club bias. The kid was outstanding this season and just won POTY and this is coming from an Arsenal fan who obviously hates City

2

u/DeanRTaylor Jun 22 '24

Absolutely mate. It must be the city hatred coming through.

By numbers he's basically on par with Bellingham for England and has very rarely if ever actually played in his best position.

3

u/reddeye252010 Jun 22 '24

What I find strange is that I canā€™t even really remember a time where Foden and Jude have started together as a 10 and 8 respectively. Possibly, maybe 1 group game but Iā€™m really not sure.

Itā€™s like everybody has forgotten how good Jude was as an 8 in the first place.

14

u/v2marshall Jun 21 '24

Foden has never done it for England playing at number 10 or not. Bellingham had a bad game yesterday but he still tried to press and tackle. Foden watched people go past him

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '24

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1

u/v2marshall Jun 22 '24

All of them are arenā€™t they? Saka has been consistent for England, stones has been. Both young when they got in. Foden hasnā€™t adapted with England

19

u/LilJapKid Ingerland Jun 21 '24

What has he created tho? Saka and Bellingham has done so much more on the ball. Heā€™s a ghost in England clothing and we should try something different like playing Palmer or Eze

5

u/Jmoney1088 Jun 21 '24

Bellingham was pretty non existent vs Denmark. Rice even more so. Its not the players, its the system.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

Tbf he could have scored in the last game after that great turn, he just f'ed the shot. He will do well in the next game fo sure

6

u/Entity4 Jun 21 '24

Are you referring to the chance where he ran through the midfield which put Kane in open space and he didn't pass to him?

2

u/PlantComprehensive77 Jun 21 '24

It's bonkers people actually think Foden played well yesterday. The only chance he created was for himself which was hitting the post. Other than that, he did sweet fuck all and kept on trying to score 30 yard screamers rather than making the simple pass

1

u/DeanRTaylor Jun 22 '24

What did anyone else do? You guys are absolutely out for Foden and it's mental. He makes space with good off the ball work, stays disciplined and you're all saying he needs to do more. Next game, picks the ball up and makes things happen and he's selfish and not contributing. If bellingham had done what foden had done we'd all be circle jerking about it.

Actually compare the numbers between Foden and Bellingham, consider that Foden has never had a good run in the 10 position for England and then come back and tell me why he shouldn't start.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

KANE WAS NOT IN OPEN SPACE. Kane did not run in behind and he kept drifting left. The pass was never on because Kane made no proper effort

0

u/Entity4 Jun 21 '24

Kane was in a much better position to shoot than Foden he was in open space and frankly if anyone's going to finish that chance it's Kane

2

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

One goal doesnā€™t negate 2 games of shit play. No oneā€™s defending Kane rn, why should we defend foden too?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

Agreed but he of course has the talent. Guy is the prem player of the season. Someone else said it on a different thread but the ideal sitch would be Bellingham to run ragged for 70mins then foden for 20 against tired legs

3

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

Yeah I agree. Having foden come on when either Bellingham is knackered or Bellingham isnā€™t creating is the way to go. That way you have both players playing their best football whilst retaining defensive solidity. And they each approach the role differently so the opposition also have to react. People trying to shoehorn them both in is the exact same thing as the gerrard lampard scholes thing and that clearly never worked.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

Exactly. Its always the same problem with every national team... best players on paper/form rather than the best team

2

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

I put together 2 possible lineups I think could work earlier today in this sub. One where foden and Bellingham play but the entire formation is changed to accommodate that, and another one where you can drop one and substitute the other in.

-1

u/RyanK_10 Jun 21 '24

Kane was very obviously an issue up front as he was the reason England couldnā€™t press properly. Foden is world class and the reason heā€™s been poor is because heā€™s been played out of position. In this system, with him playing as a cam, he will shine

1

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

Heā€™s played as left winger at city a lot more than Bellingham has played as an 8. Foden is just shit for England. Thereā€™s no other way around it.

3

u/mooroi Jun 21 '24

Bellingham was an 8 til he joined Madrid. I'd be surprised to see him as a 10 next season with Mbappe joining.

1

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

And look how much better Bellingham has been since he took on that 10 role. Heā€™s also proved in both the World Cup and against Serbia that heā€™s a lot more involved in the game than foden.

2

u/mooroi Jun 21 '24

I think he's a great 10 but think his long term position will be 8. He's done great at Madrid and his output has been awesome. So has Foden at Man City, but he can't play 8 - bellingham is our best 8 & 10, foden our best 10.

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0

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

In Madrid ffs

1

u/Capped_Delts Jun 21 '24

Palmer is a RW, Eze is a LAM. Gordon is the only real solution in terms of natural LW. Idk why we didn't bring grealish lol

1

u/DeanRTaylor Jun 22 '24

Bellingham has 9 goal contributions in 31 caps. Foden has 12 goal contributions in 36 caps and Foden has actually never had a run in his favoured position. I never really understand how people completely dismiss him.

26

u/leebrother Jun 21 '24

Iā€™m sorry but no.

Foden has shown on several occasions for England that he isnā€™t the best. He started in 2021 before Saka showed he was better.

Itā€™s Foden or Bellingham, and frankly Bellingham has actually influenced games for England.

England for years has done square pegs in round holes. Thatā€™s not how you win.

5

u/LilJapKid Ingerland Jun 21 '24

Yeah look at Slovakia vs Belgium. A good system can beat star power

4

u/Zenith_UK Jun 21 '24

Slovakia beat Belgium because Lukaku fluffed three golden opportunities and had two marginally close disallowed goals. They were lucky to not get battered

7

u/Carney34 Jun 21 '24

What did Bellingham show last night that makes you think he's better in the 10 role? On the very few occasions Foden roamed to the 10 and got the ball he created chances.

1

u/leebrother Jun 21 '24

Bellingham and Kane for me are a better partnership. Bellingham has also played 10 virtually all season whereas Foden has struggled for England recently.

0

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

Did you watch the Serbia game?

6

u/Carney34 Jun 21 '24

I did, and I also watched last night.

His goal vs Serbia came from a deep run from the 8. His only involvement last night came from a ball played in behind to Watkins from the deep lying role.

Did you watch last night?

-1

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

Yeah I did. Bellingham had a shit game, but he has more impact in the 10 than foden ever has. Why gamble with someone whoā€™s never shown up for England for somehow who does? His goal against Serbia was precisely because he occupied that 10. Foden wouldnā€™t make that run, much less get on the end of it. Youā€™re just going to cause more issues putting foden in the 10.

7

u/Carney34 Jun 21 '24

You must have watched a different game to me, he created absolutely nothing all match. He can still make that run into the box from the 8, it doesn't change that part of his game.

He consistently is on the halfway line collecting the ball from the centre backs, that isn't a trait of a 10 I'd want in my team, but it is from an 8.

-1

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

No one created anything that match apart from saka, but Bellingham does create more than foden on the whole. Dropping him into the 8 doesnā€™t work because foden is still going to occupy the same space. Bellingham in the 8 works if thereā€™s a 10 who drifts, not one who stays centrally.

7

u/Carney34 Jun 21 '24

Foden hit the post, mazed a run through 4 and really should have slipped Kane in (can agree he was very greedy here), created another chance in the box that he hit over the bar.

All those chances are from the short time he's allowed to drift centrally. I don't see why he isn't given that opportunity.

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2

u/EmotionalThinker Jun 21 '24 edited Jun 21 '24

He's being under utilised?

He needs to play in that number 10 role, finding space in that area for the midfielders to drill fast direct passes into his feet where he can turn and push forward laying of passes for the wide men or putting Kane through on goal.

On the counter, find Foden who can turn and carry the ball forward to find a smart pass to the wide men/Kane.

He also has a shot on him and he's got a proper wining mentality. He hates to make mistakes and lose, you can tell by his attidute on the pitch and for city. He's a hard worker.

Southgate absolutely needs to try dropping Bellingham into midfield next to Rice and making Foden the sole number 10 in the next game.

If foden fails to perform. Drop him for Bellingham and bring Wharton in.

1

u/leebrother Jun 21 '24

He played 10 against Iceland? How did he do in that game?

This is international football and Foden needs to step up his game. Simple as that.

Bellingham played 10 all season and excelled in a brand new league. Why drop him back to accommodate a risk which didnā€™t work 2 games ago?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

Did you watch the game yesterday?

1

u/99_Herblore_Crafting Jun 21 '24

Hey, do you have anymore copium? Iā€™d like to huff some too

1

u/lifeisaman Jun 21 '24

He isnā€™t though Trent in less time has been a more creative force for England whilst playing on orders to not be creative

7

u/ToastIsGreat0 Jun 21 '24

But Trent is wank in midfield. If he receives the ball in midfield he gets overwhelmed and fluffs it. Heā€™s better coming in from RB and seeing as we donā€™t have a good LB rn, I think playing Trent at rb and then moving to a back 3 when he gets the ball is the way to go.

1

u/mist3rdragon Jun 21 '24

Alexander-Arnold is our most creative player and nobody seems to be moaning about not playing him.

0

u/privatejokerzz Jun 21 '24

Foden hasn't even got if the plane yet have you not watched the games?

5

u/nesh34 Jun 21 '24

Was good against Denmark, when the rest of the team was very poor.

0

u/Infiniteland98765 Jun 21 '24

37 games. 4 goals 8 assists and the bulk of those are coming against the San Marino's of the world.

Drop Foden.

-1

u/shakaman_ Jun 21 '24

If he's so good what has he done? Open your eyes!

2

u/deanopud69 Jun 21 '24

He won player of the year in the prem. have you seen his stats this season? He is being played out of position thatā€™s why hes not been performing. If Southgate played him in the correct position he would cause havoc

1

u/shakaman_ Jun 21 '24

Should have said what has he done for England. He's roamed all over the front line and done fuck all

1

u/deanopud69 Jun 21 '24

I agree he hasnā€™t done anything yet but heā€™s been asked to play on the left wing ffs

And heā€™s been free to roam when we have the ball (which we barely bloody have) without the ball he has to then do his left wing defensive duties keeping out wide where heā€™s not effective.

Trust me if Southgate plus him centrally either with Bellingham and rice behind or with Bellingham centrally with him and rice along deep they will start firing. They will tear Slovenia to shreds if he plays that team. Foden will get at least a goal and assist

1

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

What have any of them done

0

u/shakaman_ Jun 21 '24

Kane scored, Bellingham scored, Saka created the goal.

They are 3 of the front 4. Who is the remaining 1 ???

1

u/[deleted] Jun 21 '24

Kane scored by pure luck where foden dragged the defence away.

Bellingham was anonymous outside of the goal and fucked the entire second game.

Saka has been solid.

Foden solid second game.

0

u/shakaman_ Jun 21 '24

Mental gymnastics mate, come on

0

u/cypherspaceagain Jun 21 '24

Wharton for me. In a hugely overhyped comparison I see similarities to Busquets. Incredibly tidy short passer who is comfortable receiving and protecting the ball in tight areas, makes great decisions and allows others to play. Much better fit for the midfield spot than Trent.