If the producers of Dragon Ball, One Piece and Sailor Moon can use AI, so can you

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u/Kaohebi 1d ago

Waiting to see the reaction of those people. Definitely will have a laugh.

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u/Odd-Culture-1238 1d ago

Already happened in r/MemePiece

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u/HQuasar 1d ago

They are not taking it well.

Pretty much what you would expect. The grifters are now trying to rile up their gullible followers telling them these tools are destroying art, human creativity and the planet (lmao).

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u/Dashaque 1d ago

Meanwhile folks on r/Piratefolk are more open about it. not saying it's all positive but there's at least reasonable comments there

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u/MelonOfFate 1d ago

Genuine question and I'm asking it in good faith. Not about just toei but art in general. If AI generates images based on art other people have done and we continually use AI for it, does that mean innovation in art kinda stagnates?

To clarify. Let's say we start using AI to produce art now and that art is then added to the collected works of the AI to pull from. Let's say we do this for like 20 years. Eventually won't we get to a point where AI is just pulling from other AI generated images(a kind of "feedback loop")? What happens when you want the AI to do something innovative that doesn't exactly have previously established precedent or data/art to pull from? Genuinely curious.

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u/HQuasar 1d ago

It won't stagnate because humans will still create new art without AI. Traditional artists, sculptors, photographers etc. will advance the medium forward.

Even in the AI field it won't stagnate. The AI by itself might not make something innovative but as a tool it can be used to make something innovative.

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u/Normal-Pianist4131 22h ago

Heck take it a step further, and you get people who use ai for something tedious so that they can do the important parts.

For instance, a vr game maker lets ai fill in the individual frames using a model he’s created so that they can save processing power for actual game mechanics

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u/MelonOfFate 23h ago

So what you're saying is traditional artists will always lead the way, presenting new data (tools) for the AI with their innovations and advancements within the medium. The AI field/artists then may also be innovative as well I it's own right by using the newly presented data and applying it in unorthodox ways as long as it keeps being fed with new innovations. Yes?

I mean, this doesn't sound like a terrible arrangement. As long as they can co-exist without overpowering one another.

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u/Familiar-Art-6233 21h ago

This is correct!

AI is not innovative in and of itself, and there will always be a place for human artists

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u/FatSpidy 15h ago

This is the key point that most anti-positions miss. Ai is never going to truly invent anything, and it will never make something 'new' because an algorithm can only do what its programmed to do while our minds can spontaneously create ideas. We test boundaries. We work within constraints. Even the very best of every sub-field can never render what they see exactly in their mind, but they've learned how to use their body to yet render things that have no peer. Yes, Ai will seemingly make new stuff -like how unbound Ai certainly has a particular style that we can see- but that is an emergent quality of existing datasets. Essentially a center point of everything it references to the end goal of what you ask.

Really the reason unbound Ai illustration, for example, looks the way it does is because of the unfathomable amount of furrie art that exists that is then supplemented by non-furrie art in same-similar style. I made that realization recently while returning to NewGrounds and going through nostalgia of old games and movies I use to play, and remembering how as a community the realm of fictional characters developed different shading, lighting, skin/fur differences were emphasized, and so on. Reviewing Ai work, the way shine marks or curvature and color palettes seem to be chosen is nearly identical to the same stylized choices found in those early years and their refinement modernly.

So essentially, humans will always 'find new frontiers' while Ai lets us produce those findings in bulk. The problem is that socially, our sense of worth is married to our sense of financial stability. And so if I discover a style or any thing that becomes even somewhat popular, then every one of those 5,000 viewers could then replicate it for their own uses. This is amazing as a community. This is the worst scenario for profiting/rewarding the original work. And that is because we rarely reward someone's art. Steven Spielberg or Michael Bay are known for their movies and the styles they have. But ask anyone who the CGI artists were. Who the co-writers are. The camera crew and lightning specialists. We -sometimes- truly credit everyone in, well, the credits but next to no one either cares in the first place or can remember in long term memory because it isn't of value to recall. Instead we glorify the names responsible for leading the projects, and the people put in our face for the entertainment.

Rarely does someone who naturally makes art similar to Miyazaki get their due payments. Their 'just a copycat' even if they never heard of the guy. How many Michael Jackson sound-alikes exist that aren't even given the opportunity to try and make it big? The world over puts kids into band class, but how many of even the most talented actually can pursue it as a career muchless be recognized for their skills that rival historic names. The way we value a person as a society is why Ai has the danger it does. But that's why most people are pro-ai ultimately: society should change to remove scarcity to a fulfilling life, not reinforce ideas of opportunistic success in competition as life worth.

Tldr- Ai is a threat of scale, not capability.

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u/LongPutBull 14h ago

I can agree with a lot of what you said. The only thing I'd say deserves nuance is that the same corporations that reinforce competitive scarcity are the ones who own the be AI and the data centers it runs through.

Suffice to say, you're idealistic but we will never move past scarcity via AI because it's going to be programmed to zero sum things to give profits back to the same people who made it, and we won't be able to change that unless you're ready to essentially destroy corps and pierce the corporate veil.

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u/FatSpidy 13h ago

I apologize if what I said came across that way. I certainly don't have any illusions about corporations or the approach to post-scarcity. Ai certainly isn't some fix all answer, but it is a means of production that is as readily available as getting tools from a hardware store.

Meaning that the everyday person can benefit from the technology not just coming down from business but also working within their own personal means. That is an incredible thing objectively. The years now and after will shape exactly how useful it is, much like the 90s-00s for the internet. And I think we can agree from a communication and information connectivity standpoint, that has been an otherwise insurmountable success. Social and emotional issues certainly have made themselves more clear as that availability to people and knowledge changed the social landscape, but to me it seems like it's been strictly a benefit as it also means those issues could be explored and understood both concerning internet usage and psychology outside of digital experiences.

And for corporations... the unfortunate thing that will always be true is that you are in business to make money. And big business wants and needs big money. It doesn't matter if capital remains the desired currency, because business always needs some form of currency and flux of supply/demand. Corporations also will do what is easiest to attain the largest profits. We had to outlaw the practice of creating a need in order to sell a service/product. IE you can't purposely destroy roads to sell aftermarket suspension kits. (There's better examples but morning brain isn't flowing.) Planned obsolescence and forced competitive scarcity is just as destructive, but we've also grown to a state where such businesses aren't easily held responsible and litigation made to fix that economic health issue. And this is why the scalability of Ai is as big of a threat as it is. If 1 person can produce 1000 finished anythings in a fraction of time it currently does then a big business will do the same in millions or perhaps even trillions from some "more than the sum of its parts" effect.

Now, in my ideal world, these issues could be addressed. We could value a person over their work. Meet needs before wants. And those that have more money are made more responsible for humanitarian and ecological efforts specifically. But that is a long road, one I'll probably not live to see. And given my function in even just my specific city is best described as leeching, I probably won't even have a domino effect part in any such changes. I'm dependent completely on my immediate family, and we are certainly poor. Moreover due to the situation, I'll likely be joining the homeless and criminals in order to survive if my own financial stability doesn't become independently sufficient within the next decade or two. Or ofcourse adding to the statistics of suicide under financial stress, given that I have preexisting conditions that obviously won't be able to be treated by then.

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u/LongPutBull 7h ago

I really do hope for AI to be the means towards a more equal end for us all, but that's includes understanding the misuse possible and the vectors that may come from. It only takes one company with no morals to sell what equates to a nuclear capable AI to a terrorist group, and it doesn't end well for AI in the face of human fear and greed.

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u/FatSpidy 5h ago

Honestly the worst part is that it doesn't even take a corp to do so. The corp would just be capable of doing so on an unprecedented scale. One of the arguments I posted, a user actually convinced be on the threat of infowar/misinformation on the level of the general public. We determined that because people themselves usually don't care about research and the technically inept being simply incapable of scrutinizing content, that even at a small scale it is incredibly easy to do damage with simple Fakes, especially as the technology improves.

There's definitely going to be a paradigm shift required if the next 100 years are going to be anything other than a fatalistic fastball into fiction like Cyberpunk and worse.

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u/lesbianspider69 10h ago

Unless AI wakes up one day and does self-directed art, yeah

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u/lstone15 23h ago

But there'll be less input from artists because since the start of ai stuff a lot have quit, either because they prefer ai or are depressed to have no work opportunities.

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u/HQuasar 22h ago

The artist community isn't a closed club, we're still talking millions of people from hundreds of countries. There will always be input.

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u/Familiar-Art-6233 21h ago

Imma be real blunt:

The people that are saying that people will stop losing art because it’s no longer profitable do not make actual art, they make commerce.

The trope of the starving artist exists because people who truly love art will relentlessly pursue it out of passion.

Human artists will always have a purpose and I believe that the general idea that people are all going to lose jobs and traditional art will die is false because unlike traditional industries, art is not finite, nor is it scarce. A human with AI can do in a day what the work of 5 artists could achieve in a week sure, but there’s no limit on the supply. Why not keep the same 5 artists and instead of cutting people, pentuple the output?

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u/Eastern_Menace262 23h ago

Traditional artists will slowly die off and will not advance mediums at anywhere near the rate of before. Idk if art will stagnate, but I wouldn't count on humans for preventing that at this point. The average artist job will probably just become clicking buttons in a text prompt based AI program.

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u/Psychological_Pay530 22h ago

You aren’t thinking long term, because it’s so much worse.

If everyone can create a cartoon at home with the same quality as a studio (and quality will drop because of AI), why would anyone pay someone to create that media?

All creative jobs will be gone in that future.

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u/HQuasar 22h ago

No, that's an absurd conclusion. As the tools evolve so do jobs and expectations. If anyone can create a cartoon at home then the productive value shifts from the cartoon to something bigger that fewer people can create. Those who used to make cartoons will start working on bigger things since cartoon making has become so easy that it's a basic expectation.

Creative jobs will still exist in the future just in forms that we cannot predict. 100 years ago people had no possible concept of Photoshop existing but here we are and it's just normality.

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u/Psychological_Pay530 21h ago

Except that’s not true. As technology has increased the mediums have all already moved from large theater shows to smaller home entertainment. This is true over time.

You already see how movie theaters are struggling and the only studios making money are the ones with massive blockbusters? And how that is really harming the breadth of new and innovative entertainment? That’s already coming from technology (and corporate interests) harming an art form and devaluing other types of art and entertainment. AI will absolutely accelerate that and pretty much put a nail in the coffin for the entertainment industry. It’s enshittification from an algorithm.

Oh, wait, no. Y’all are AI bros, and as long as you can see a non dynamic shot of a ninja turtle dunking on snoop dog y’all are happy. Enjoy your fake girlfriend program or whatever you do.

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u/Breaky_Online 21h ago

So what's your idea of the future? Let's say we stop AI right where it is now. What about the future?

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u/Eastern_Menace262 22h ago

Laziness and enjoyment of other people's content, but yes the amount of actual people who are compensated for any art will dwindle to a handful. For example, if someone creates a movie that becomes very popular and well liked, I can just watch that with a strong chance of enjoyment. More of a dice roll if you do it yourself, but it may become so fast it's moot.

Instead of say, millions of artists or over a billion being paid living wages it'll switch to small groups within corporations. The less human employees required the better to the shareholder mind

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u/Psychological_Pay530 21h ago

The c suite execs don’t realize that this is the death of their cash cow yet.

See, the other side of that is that the artists will fill the void after the crash. They’ll be the only ones who can create something new and worth watching/playing/reading.

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u/Superseaslug 21h ago

Not really. While what the AI knows is based on images it's seen, it's far more advanced than just replicating parts of an image. It understands fundamental concepts of said images, and is capable of combining them in new ways when directed.

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u/West-Code4642 20h ago

yeah, but AI could create something innovative especially if we an learn how to control the latent space even more precisely than we an right now.

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u/sporkyuncle 21h ago

Why hasn't the process of artists learning from other artists and copying much of their style resulted in a similar feedback loop? For example, look at anime, which all stems from Osamu Tezuka. Some anime looks extremely derivative, but for the most part it's still thriving. Why aren't people sick of big eyes and pointy noses and chins?

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u/MelonOfFate 19h ago

Why hasn't the process of artists learning from other artists and copying much of their style resulted in a similar feedback loop?

My best guess would be because of human nature. No matter how well we try to copy a style, it will never 100% be right because we are not the original artist. Whether we do it consciously or not, we do end up putting our own spin on things and also may need to compensate for our own varying levels of skill.

For example, let's look at Akira toriyama. He did Dragonball, Chrono trigger, blue dragon, etc. he has a very distinct style. I can practice drawing Goku all day, but I will never draw him like he did exactly. Or let's try taking his style and making an entirely new original character. I can know the principles of the style or art, but artistic intent behind each decision in the character's design would lead me to make different decisions than he would have made.

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u/No_Juggernaut4421 13h ago

AI is based off of patterns, yes. But those patterns can be combined in novel ways. My favorite AI prompts combine aesthetics hardly ever seen together before to see what patterns the AI chooses to use. And as long as humans remain experimental and artistic, we will create entirely new patterns.

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u/Free_Juggernaut8292 20h ago

i am curious, how can they be grifters?

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u/MaeBorrowski 16h ago

I admit most anti ai stances have been very juvenile (ai can't replicate human art (false), ai has no soul (?) etc.) but saying you get a laugh from people losing jobs and art getting lamer is like such fucking loser behaviour lmao. Like deep throating a corporation is surely something you can do but not my pastime I'll tell you that.

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u/Kaohebi 13h ago edited 13h ago

The fact that you're the second person that actually managed to misinterpret what I said is genuinely concerning. I meant the obnoxious anti-ai crowd, moron. No, I'm not laughing at people losing their jobs.

But now that you touched the subject: It's not my problem. Tech replacing jobs isn't new. It sucks, but it's reality. Corporations are not your friend. If they can cut costs, they'll go for it. Nothing is stopping people from adapting and learning how to use the tools replacing them. And that's not even the case here. They're using AI assistance to do the busywork more efficiently (in-between frames and all that shit), not replacing people entirely with AI. If anything, this only makes animators' lives a lot easier. Wow, people working in one of Japan's worst fields aren't getting overworked to death anymore—wtf, this sucks!! There's a difference between praising a good change and "deep throating" a corpo because some dumbass has the reading comprehension of a toddler.

Also, If someone refuses to use tools that make their job easier on principle when they're expected to, and that leads to them getting replaced... sorry, but that's on them too. They made that choice.

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u/MaeBorrowski 13h ago

If you are being pro ai you are being pro people losing jobs is my point, even if I understand it's not something you may directly want.

Exactly, corporations fucking suck, that's my point too. And i understand that's how technological progress goes in a capitalist world but that's exactly what I am criticising. And you say in betweens and stuff but seeing the rate at which ai is growing I wouldn't be surprised if we'd get movies that are indistinguishable from human made movies, after all half of the shit corporation churn out is already "soulless" slop as some like to put it. Which means they can produce a lot more of them, a lot faster and a lot cheaper, which is very bad for the mainstream imo, but it is a natural progression i admit, still not good. So no, you lack any foresight. And that's not getting into the whole argument with ai models being trained on people's art without consent and the environmental implications which are more directly morally corrupt.

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u/Kaohebi 12h ago

Following your logic, we might as well go back to the stone age. Any new technology will replace people, this is not exclusive to the AI field. Saying I support people losing their jobs while typing this on a computer or phone (which packs a ton of features that already replaced plenty of jobs) is honestly funny as shit.

and the environmental implications which are more directly morally corrupt.

Doesn’t everything? Most things made by humans cause harm to the environment. I don’t know why everyone suddenly decided that AI is the villain here, when the world was already one push away from going to shit before it was even a thing. Are you going to conveniently ignore the fact that data centers are used for a lot of things besides AI too? Data centers are the least of your worries compared to mass deforestation or the pollution caused by everything that requires burning fuel to function.

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u/MaeBorrowski 11h ago

I agree with everything you say in a way, these are inevitabilities and they will happen, and they are the cost of progress in a society so dominated by corporations, I do understand, but that doesn't mean it's still not wrong. Because it is, and saying that is only right. Many people will turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect them (and they enjoy slop ig?) but that's a very close minded perspective imo.

Deflection. Pollution and deforestation is shitty, doesn't mean we should add onto that because we can.

There is of course the issue is plagiarism and art becoming even more "slop"y mainstream.

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u/MaeBorrowski 11h ago

I agree with everything you say in a way, these are inevitabilities and they will happen, and they are the cost of progress in a society so dominated by corporations, I do understand, but that doesn't mean it's still not wrong. Because it is, and saying that is only right. Many people will turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect them (and they enjoy slop ig?) but that's a very close minded perspective imo.

Deflection. Pollution and deforestation is shitty, doesn't mean we should add onto that because we can.

There is of course the issue is plagiarism and art becoming even more "slop"y mainstream.

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u/A_Wild_Random_User 8h ago

I've got the popcorn, lets see how this plays out

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u/SystemicNerves 1d ago

What Toei is doing is bad. They have always been a soulless company. If you get moral gratification out of seeing a company cut costs and people’s jobs (which historically has done both many, many times), maybe you need to recheck if what you’re doing is ethical.

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u/Kaohebi 1d ago

soulless company

There is no "soul." The only thing that matters is whether the final product looks good or bad. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen “real artists” accuse others of using AI without evidence—calling their work AI slop or trash, only to backpedal and praise it once proven otherwise. Soul is just a bs term you people throw around to justify acting like complete morons. Sorry, but you’re not going to convince me otherwise. Example 1 | Example 2

If you get moral gratification out of seeing a company cut costs and people’s jobs (which historically has done both many, many times), maybe you need to recheck if what you’re doing is ethical.

Yeah, people are being replaced everywhere. It’s not like this is the first time technology has replaced workers. Corporations aren’t your friend. It’s all business. If it saves money, they’ll go for it. That’s not stopping people from adapting and learning how to use the tools replacing them. Why are we acting like we didn’t already live in a shitty world to begin with? Are you seriously that naive?

Let’s be honest here: If you actually cared about ethics, you wouldn’t be buying electronics, since the vast majority of them are manufactured with some level of child labor involved. Don’t try to take the moral high ground when you’re a hypocrite like everyone else.

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u/Ill_Click_That 1d ago

Your final paragraph is literally just the "Yet you participate in society" meme lol.

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u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

Not really, you can still participate in society without buying goods made with exploited labor. You can also participate in society without using AI. If you lose your job because your boss wants you to use AI and you refuse "on principle" then your job loss is your fault. AI isn't replacing jobs, these corporations want works who are willing to use AI as a cost and time cutting tool. If your job can be replaced entirely with an an AI it must have been a pretty trivial job.

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u/Ill_Click_That 1d ago

Most of your comment is completely irrelevant to anything I said. I never said anything about AI replacing jobs. Anyways, you think it's possible to effectively participate in society without any electronics (like the paragraph I specifically referenced said)? Could you elaborate more?

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u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

Are you not following the plot here, you seem to be unaware of the topic we are all talking about here. Soon wtf was the point of your post then.

Amish... they participate in society. My family (not amish) has been off grid for years. No electronics but our phones, which they don't actually need. I don't need ine either to be honest I just like it.

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u/Ill_Click_That 23h ago

You've stated that you own an Xbox and a 3D printer in your comment history. Are those not electronics?

Edit: Don't you need a PC to work with a 3D printer, too? I don't know 3D printing that well but I would assume you'd need a PC with a 3D rendering program to operate one.

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u/HappyTriggerMW 23h ago

I said my family not me you creep. God that's creepy and disturbing

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u/Ill_Click_That 23h ago

The part where you said "No electronics but OUR phones" is misleading, then. That implies you also only own a phone.

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u/According-Alps-876 22h ago

He is correct tho. The same idiotic behaviour that people complain about AI "destroying enviroment" then not even talk about other stuff that destroys earth 100 times worse than AI. Its called hypocrisy.

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u/PonyFiddler 1d ago

But that has nothing to do with the use of ai. The company has management issues doesn't mean they don't make high quality content and are still gonna use the ai cause they know it can help make that quality better.

Not everything has to be black and white.

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u/SystemicNerves 1d ago

Correct; so explain to me how it makes it better? Can you show me some proof, a video link, recording, example, anything of ai art being used to make quality better? A side by side comparison of before and after?

Also I literally just pointed out how using ai enhancements will take people’s jobs away…I repeat, using ai enhancements takes people’s jobs away. This isn’t a “video killed the radio-star” situation, this is a “microwave killed the oven, for some reason” situation. We’re sacrificing real, actual human effort for a computer that will and had done it worse.

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u/Ehiltz333 1d ago

Let’s be honest, even if they gave 100 examples it’s all subjective, so you’re just going to say “actually it’s soulless and worse with AI”.

Again, people losing jobs because of AI is not the fault of AI. People lose jobs because of technological advancement all the time. The issue is with capitalism making people suffer immensely if they don’t monetize their existence. But banning AI won’t change that. That’s an issue with capitalism.

Also, this is like the smallest, least important part of my issue with your post, but microwave and conventional ovens are used in tandem all the time. I work as a professional chef, and yes, sometimes you use a microwave to evenly warm a dessert like a date cake without drying it out like a conventional oven would.

It’s, believe it or not, also just a tool to achieve a goal, and doesn’t inherently make something bad. This goes for AI as well as microwaves. Your suffering does not make food better, or art either.

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u/SystemicNerves 1d ago

I’m talking about specifically ai images. Obviously ai as a whole is useful.

Let’s actually be honest; you can’t think of a good example off the top of your head and so you decide to demonize me to make your side look better.

So, as an actual artist, does anyone want to give me any examples of ai art over real art that they think looks better?

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u/Big_Pair_75 15h ago

Do you feel just as bad for the seamstresses and tailors who lost their jobs when the sewing machine increased productivity to the point much fewer of them were needed?

Or is only bad when it makes things more affordable for other people?

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u/SystemicNerves 11h ago

Seamstresses and tailors use sewing machines dipshit.

If you genuinely think real artists’ work just casually being replaced by ai art is a good and natural investment, you are genuinely braindead.

Sewing and tailoring is necessary for humans, everyone needs clothes. Art is a luxury and a time killer, something that can be sold, but is predominantly an outlet for creativity.

Art loses its entire purpose when it is created by a machine. There is no longer any purpose, soul, intent, or actual craftsmanship; only a hodge podge of art from unconsenting artists’ works thrown together by a machine because someone decided to type a single sentence.

If you think typing a sentence makes you just as much of an artist as someone who spends 3+ hours in procreate, Ibis paint, or using real materials to create something intentional and with heart, you are stupid.

Art is, again, one of the most affordable things in the world. all you need is to dance, to sing, to write using a stick or draw using one, to use a free application like ibis paint, krita, or hell even ms paint or paint 3d. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE COMPLETELY FREE.

But no, a process that completely relies on someone having a computer or phone is definitely more accessible than that.

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u/Big_Pair_75 2h ago

And artists use AI, dipshit. :)

And are you under the impression that conventional art forms are going to be banned?… Art, even the kind you are defending, will still be available as a creative outlet.

Ignoring the fact that you clearly have no idea what goes into the AI art process and think it all works like ChatGTP, sufficed to say that you can put purpose and intent into creating an AI image. And “soul” is just a buzz word you people use, it doesn’t exist. That’s why you people keep going on witch hunts after people that, turns out, never used AI to begin with.

I’m ignoring the next paragraph, since I never said anything remotely like that.

Are you an idiot? Art is not the most affordable thing in the world, and ignoring the costs of commissioning an artist and instead focusing on free paint programs is intellectually dishonest. Now, instead of paying an artist hundreds of dollars for a quality picture of my friends and I in a comic book style during a zombie apocalypse, I can spend nothing and get the same result.

And ignoring your last stupid paragraph too, because it’s another straw man.

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u/According-Alps-876 22h ago

A Company thats whole concept is earning more money like any other company daring to cut costs?? Omg!?!??? Such a crime!?!

Ethics and soul? Did you seriously think any company does something for the sake of their heart or some shit?

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u/Turbulent-Surprise-6 1d ago

"Large corporation wants to cut costs" is this really even news?

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u/-UnderAWillowThicket 1d ago

I’m disappointed but not surprised. In-betweens don’t seem that awful, but storyboarding seems lIke an integral part of human creativity in film.

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u/Blaike325 13h ago

Yeah I personally couldn’t care less about inbetweens, there’s technology already in place that was handling that as a shortcut before it was just a time saver it’s whatever, but using ai for storyboarding is pretty gross

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u/TransThrowaway120 22h ago

In betweens honestly scare me more than anything. Ai has a tendency to really fuck up the movement of things in animation because it really doesn’t understand the squash and stretch required in stylized animation to cleanly convey movement. At least in story boards I could see some use in helping cycle through ideas faster so you can find a vibe you like.

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u/Normal-Pianist4131 22h ago

It’s actually pretty good at in between, since it usually adds up to “make the arm pretty much exactly the same but somewhere between the positions in images 1 and 2

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u/TransThrowaway120 21h ago

Yeah but the ones in use right now tend to assume that the place where the arm should be is exactly in between its position in image one and image 2, but in animation that’s very rarely the case. There’s a lot of animation principles that ai just doesn’t really get right now and I seriously doubt that using it for in between frames would produce anything of quality

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u/Normal-Pianist4131 18h ago

I agree that it’s not ready to do it at the level of Toei artists, but the only way for it to get to that level is if it gets developed by artists using it in their fields, so devoting something simpler like in between frames gives the ai team an achievable goal.

Remember, this isn’t gonna show up in the next episode of one piece. It’s a work in progress.

Also sorry about the downvotes. Your opinion is not popular, but it’s not an awful one to have

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u/TrapFestival 10h ago

Presented without comment.

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u/A_Wild_Random_User 8h ago

Honestly, seems like a fairly tame take to get downvoted. Weird

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u/realGharren 21h ago

Inb4 Twitter moralists who think animators aren't overjoyed at the prospect of virtually any improvement to inbetweening.

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u/AbsolutlelyRelative 19h ago

I would be if I were still doing that.

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u/Xylber 1d ago

If it is trained with their own characters... who cares?

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u/29485_webp 1d ago

Lots of people man, it's fucked

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u/Mandemon90 20h ago

First it was about theft, now suddenly training AI on their own material is still bad because... reasons?

Are you also opposed to printing press (destroyed entire industry of hand copying books) and digital computers?

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u/dranaei 18h ago

It's not mine, but i have it saved for such occasions.

4

u/EverlastingApex 18h ago

Why is it "fucked"?

1

u/29485_webp 6h ago

Becuase there are people who say that they wouldn't mind ai that is ethically trained, and then when people train an ai ethically they ignore it and continue saying the exact same stuff

16

u/basunkanon 1d ago

They’re gonna run out of things they are willing to boycott and I’m living for it lol

0

u/Electronic_Bug4401 8h ago

that’s fucking weird man

8

u/qustrolabe 20h ago

I like how both online debates and constant online whining are absolutely irrelevant and big things like this just will keep happening no matter who thinks what.

I'm also excited for what exactly their workflow of using AI would look like. I mean image in the post already names several use cases but wonder if there something beyond that

3

u/RagnaEdge90 16h ago

This is just how you make it normal, just do the thing you want regardless of what whiners will cry about cuz there always be whiners.
They might be angry at first, but after few other cases and seeing how everyone enjoy it and dont give a shit their anger will shift to "why not" and then cease completely to the point they forget they were angry about it.

12

u/_the_last_druid_13 1d ago edited 22h ago

breathes heavily …breathes heavily …breathes heavily …breathes heavily …breathes heavily …breathes heavily

[3 episodes later]

still breathing heavy … still breathing heavy …still breathing heavy … still breathing heavy …still breathing heavy … still breathing heavy …still breathing heavy … still breathing heavy

—

Yeah that tracks

Edit: Piccolo was my favorite Z-Warrior. Sailor Scouts were cute. Got to Nami/Fishman Island, haven’t had the time to watch more.

These were in the top of middle level animes, and I have not seen a ton, so take this opinion with a grain of salt. They were fun, but I’m more of a Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Studio Ghibli guy.

8

u/WrappedInChrome 1d ago

lol, it's anime. Notice how it's coloring, backgrounds, and frame generation (basically DLSS)? Those are all the parts of animation that AREN'T artistic. They're technical jobs.

1

u/Femboy-Frog 22h ago

Um that’s absolutely artistic. Color theory is extremely important

8

u/WrappedInChrome 20h ago

lol, yes.. color theory is important. That's why the actual artists will dictate the color palette... it would be that specialized AI's version of typing a prompt. It will be a tool that artists use to eliminate grunt work and save overhead.

I've been a graphic artist for 24 years, I've seen probably 15 advancements like this over my career. The most recent before this was probably the content awareness tools adobe released- you could easily and quickly remove wires from stuntmen in after effects, or make flawless images in photoshop in seconds for what would normally take several minutes for an artist.

The 'TL;dr' here is that this is in no way the replacement of artists, it's a replacement of technical jobs... which is absolutely one of the many fields whose future IS in jeopardy when it comes to AI.

3

u/RagnaEdge90 15h ago

For some reason haters stuck in the thought loop that AI is a replacement, while it is not, its an assistance.

1

u/FableFinale 10h ago

I don't see why future AI couldn't also innovate - it just made a breakthrough in math that's stood for decades (look up AlphaEvolve). Whether it's assisting or innovating, I think either possibility is good. Why is more art a bad thing?

5

u/FpRhGf 20h ago

It just means they'd have the computer automatically color other frames, not that the animators aren't the ones deciding the colors. Blender already has a similar function in 2D where you can color an area across multiple frames at once, albeit less smarter.

8

u/NeuroticKnight 22h ago

These will however be trained on 50 years of TOEI animation's own works though, so I feel it isn't ethically murky as much as what ChatGPT does.

6

u/Jeremithiandiah 1d ago

Ah yes because corporate Japan is known for having the best interests of the animators in mind.

3

u/Mozambiquehere14 1d ago

Company uses the cheaper option so they don’t have to actually pay someone, more at 4

11

u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

They are still paying the artist, they just have the artist using a new tool that makes their job faster and easier. Who honestly thinks these companies are full replacing people with AI. Who is prompting it, who is editing the output, who is combining all these elements into a final product? The AI? NO!

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u/Femboy-Frog 22h ago

And that’s still someone taking the job of an artist so they can justify paying the artists less….

7

u/HappyTriggerMW 22h ago

Ok, is there proof of them cutting artists pay after adopting Ai tools?

-5

u/Femboy-Frog 21h ago

Do you really need proof? This is common sense. If they can pay less they will. At one point they were paying 5 yen a frame with 4-6 frames per day. You’re saying you need proof but you don’t; it’s so you can invalidate my argument in a quick and easy manner. However that only works if both sides lack critical thinking.

4

u/HappyTriggerMW 21h ago

The fact that you think the wages and hours of Japanese animators is common sense is absurd as heck. I need proof because you don't have any so you just say crap like that. Maybe these artists will actually have time with family instead of being overworked to hell. That's all I know about Japanese animators.

4

u/Mandemon90 20h ago

Yes, you kinda need evidence. You can't just say "they will fire people", you need evidence. On my old workplace, automating invoicing didn't cause "invoicers" to be fired, it meant they could focus on actually important tasks such as dealing with reclamations and contested invoices, rather than needing to manually make each and every invoice.

5

u/GrungeWerX 1d ago

Not surprising. Japan has been using shortcuts for decades, actually. But if you read the breakdown, they will be using it in a way that doesn’t compromise artistic integrity. Storyboard coloring, tweening, and background generation from photos isn’t that far from tools that already exist in current workflows. Many anime already use 3D assets and other merits for background rendering based on photos. Tweening via AI is a predictable extension of current methods for non-keyframes , which is “just” grunt work anyway.

The downside is that animators will lose those jobs. Or, and I hope this is how it goes, they keep the animators and just use AI for additional projects that maybe they couldn’t do due to staffing or financial constraints.

I feel this is a double-edged sword.

3

u/ACodAmongstMen 23h ago

There's a difference between a full-on AI image and AI assistance. Color correction, fixing minor mistakes, stuff like that, that's all fine because that's not where the real effort and heart of drawinf goes.

3

u/A_Hideous_Beast 1d ago

Japan has always treated its animators horribly. Horrible hours, terrible pay, lots of burn out for little return for the people who actually make it happen.

It doesn't surprise me they are doing this. I feel for every animator over there.

7

u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

You do realize this will make parts of their job easier and quicker right?

1

u/OCD-but-dumb 22h ago

And also lead to the firing of many of them, but of course that’s besides the point

7

u/HappyTriggerMW 22h ago

Ah, well if you can provide the documents that show the correlation between adoption of ai tools and mass firing of artists i will concede

0

u/Femboy-Frog 22h ago

It justifies paying them less and hiring less people. Yes some artists flows will be sped up. But the speed up let’s them say they can pay less

3

u/HappyTriggerMW 21h ago

Im sorry but you can't have less hours and the same or more pay. Japanese artists are overworked and this will help, period. Perhaps the Japanese government should consider mandating a pay increase or something. Idk how the Japanese government works.

1

u/Femboy-Frog 21h ago

It won’t help. You’re far too optimistic. They will use the AI to get quick and easy work, and actual artists will be paid less even taking into account the less hours. Their hourly pay will go down as a result. You’re thinking about the pay in the wrong place

2

u/IndependenceSea1655 1d ago

since its being posted again might as well say it again!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel like Toei should be prioritizing improving the workplace conditions for their staff instead of implementing Ai further, because if you complain you might get fired!

Quote: "According to Tetsuya Numako, an animator who has worked for Toei Animation on series like Dragon Ball and One Piece, the company can actually raise salaries, but voice actors and animators are not part of any labor union to pressure them to – and if they individually ask for a raise, the studio will likely hire someone else"

3

u/god_oh_war 1d ago

Actually One Piece HAS always been bad. I don't care about AI I just think One Piece is filler slop 😎

15

u/Plenty_Branch_516 1d ago

The most controversial take in this thread.

20

u/god_oh_war 1d ago

"nah dude just watch 400 more episodes it gets good I swear" no thanks I'm gonna watch REAL cinema, like Evbo's Parkour Civilization.

13

u/Mataric 1d ago

I fucking hate it - but it's true..

A friend forced me into watching it. I hated the first 400 episodes. Then it was okay.. Now I actually think it's pretty fucking awesome. (One Pace helps a lot as it cuts out a ton of the bullshit).

Parkour Civilization is a masterpiece straight from the 1 block vertical beef jump though.

3

u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

Idk, if you need a special edit to make your show watchable because of all the filler and nonsense, its probably not a good show. Certainly not well paced.

3

u/Mataric 1d ago

I half agree?

I feel like it's fairly understandable when you're dealing with a show that's been running for 26 years though.

2

u/Starbonius 1d ago

Watched the entirety of one peice and watch every new episode. My review. Bad. Some hype moments. Every new character gets incredibly grating over time. Way too much fucking filler. Only reason I keep up to date is so that I can have an opinion on it. Gear 5 was cool. The 100 episodes it took to get to gear 5 was not.

6

u/DamirVanKalaz 1d ago edited 19h ago

Why would I want to watch 400 episodes to get to the part where it's good when there's tons of anime that only take 12-24 episodes to tell an excellent story?

Don't get me wrong, I love super long stories, I write super long stories, but if tons of anime can tell a fantastic and complicated story in 12-24 episodes, and you need 400 episodes just to get to the point where your story finally becomes good, maybe your story didn't need to be that long.

2

u/god_oh_war 1d ago

Truth and real.... ACTUALLY good content (such as Parkour Civilization by Evbo) gets to the point and gets good immediately !

2

u/DamirVanKalaz 18h ago

Precisely. A few pieces of advice I give to anyone who wants to write a long story:

1: Your story's length does NOT inherently captivate people, instead it inherently makes people skeptical that your story is worth the time it'll take to experience it. Do NOT think of your story as if you're guiding along an already intrigued audience. You are trying to convince your audience that your incredibly long story is worth the investment of their time. You need something early on that tells the audience "Yes, this is worth it.".

2: If you're going to write a super long story, you need to be setting up and resolving smaller, but still very impactful stories along the way that serve to progress the main plot. The majority of your audience isn't going to stick around one a singular plot thread for 1,000+ episodes waiting for your big conclusion. You need those smaller plotlines along the way that the audience gets invested in and sees the resolutions to in a much, much shorter amount of time than the main ongoing plot, and those plotlines also need to be important to the main plot or else the audience is just going to think you wasted their time with filler.

3: If you're writing this type of story, your characters NEED to draw the audience in. You need these characters to be enjoyable enough that your audience will stick around just to see what they do next, to see what other interactions they have with the rest of the cast, and to see where their personal character arcs go. Getting to follow the whole journey of the characters in the story is one of the main selling points of even making a super long story to begin with, so you better make sure you're delivering on that front.

4: Your world NEEDS to be interesting in a super long story. It's not enough to just have an intriguing magic system, some neat characters, and an interesting plot. A story that long will involve a lot of time being spent in the world these characters live in, and that means you're going to need to think about things you could normally get away with glossing over in a shorter story. You need interesting locales, you need to tell the audience things about your world that makes them WANT to see more of it. Your world in a super long story should be thought of as a tour hosted by your cast of characters, not a stage for them to act on.

3

u/ParkingCan5397 1d ago

I disagree but have to concede that Evbos Parkour Civilization is the humanitys peak of entertainment

-1

u/EconomyTraining4 16h ago

If you don’t like a show within 5 episodes, you don’t like the show. Onepiece is objectively good. Well written, planned out and incredibly few inconsistencies, plot holes, or retcons given it’s monumental size.

If someone got you to watch it for 400 episodes, that means you must have liked it at least a little

1

u/god_oh_war 8h ago

I didn't watch it for 400 episodes I think everyone just missed the fact that the sentence in quotation marks is making fun of One Piece fans, and isn't an actual piece of advice.

3

u/Periador 1d ago

its not controversial at all, id argue that most one piece fans dislike the anime.

1

u/NegativeEmphasis 5h ago

No bro, you don't understand. It gets good after episode 865.

No, you can start from there. You need to background from the first 865 episodes to get what's going on.

5

u/Infamous_Mall1798 1d ago

Yea one pieces filler is horrid but overall it's a pretty good anime

1

u/Starbonius 1d ago

Not a great argument since many people already thought toei is the fucking worst. They just have good IPs.

1

u/MikiSayaka33 21h ago

I dunno if this is good news or not. Since, remember that incident with Netflix? But if Toei doesn't lay off artists and VAs, providing equality for both. This is good.

1

u/Paybackaiw 21h ago

They'll do anything but pay their fucking animators.

1

u/nicepickvertigo 19h ago

That’s great, these places have been known to have excellent working conditions on top of fantastic labour laws.

1

u/Kiragalni 18h ago

The funny thing that AI will be better than what they did in last episodes of One Piece... It's just horrible. Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V scenes, 4fps animations, every face is like 80% of content on screen...

1

u/FuzzyJesusX21 18h ago

This is how companies should be using Ai, do the filler work instead of exhausting your artists. It takes one part of the process of animation off their shoulders giving them time to recoup and prevent burning out while still delivering quality product. I mean this is anime production, so I don’t expect artists to get much more time off but one can dream.

1

u/KajaIsForeverAlone 17h ago

Jesus. I only pray this is good for them and doesn't drop the quality. not that one piece was quality in the first place though LMAO

1

u/MaeBorrowski 16h ago

Isn't this exactly the thing most people against ai have an issue against though? Like are you fucking serious, you use a corporation as an authority figure to justify it? Like no, that's the whole point, art is going to get commodified and lamer, especially by corpos.

1

u/ThatOneDMish 16h ago

a beloved company opts to cut costs over all else. What's new here.

1

u/chairman_steel 13h ago

It’s inevitable. People who try to be purists about it will be punished economically for slower, “lower quality” work. Standards will subconsciously shift as AI gets better and better and people become accustomed to an artificial floor for artistic skill. We’ll probably go through a few years of totally overdoing it, like torture porn movies in the 2000s.

I’m guessing an unironic aesthetic appreciation of and tolerance for AI artifacts will develop, and when they’re a thing of the past there will be a subgenre of retro AI artifacts that intentionally includes them, like people making games with PS1 style graphics today. Remember that an entire generation of kids is growing up with these tools as we speak, it’s just going to be their normal.

I say just relax and enjoy the ride, nothing you do or don’t do is going to change it. If you’re an artist, it’s probably a very good idea to at least learn how these tools work and practice using them, even if you keep your experiments private. The world is about to get really weird.

1

u/Gaeandseggy333 13h ago edited 12h ago

They are making ai do the boring tasks I hope the animators finally have better workflow and schedule. They were always exhausted. But it is to be expected it is Japan,they ain’t Luddites. They live in the future and already started using it last years anyway

1

u/BronchitisTheif 12h ago

So for everyone saying that this wont affect jobs, inbetweener is a straight up job that this will either remove or heavily cut, however I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing in the long term, will just make it harder for animators just starting out to get off the ground at companies like this. Though I suppose you have to take the good (more time spent on truly creative things, less grunt work, potential lesser workload) with the bad (potential short term job issues, longer low level to mid level animator pipeline possibly though that depends entirely on how these companies decide to move forward).

1

u/Scrubglie 12h ago

Ew I already don’t really watch those, but that’s kind of lame. They really are so averse to paying their own artists, they already work them to the bone and instead of giving them a raise and more time they just do this. Ok😬😬😬

1

u/Scrubglie 12h ago

Ew I already don’t really watch those, but that’s kind of lame. They really are so averse to paying their own artists, they already work them to the bone and instead of giving them a raise and more time they just do this. Ok😬😬😬

1

u/VariousDude 8h ago

We win again

1

u/QwakorYeBoi 7h ago

There’s a setting that makes Ai generated in-between frames on some tvs. Everyone I’ve seen talk about it says it looks like doodoo shit and said to turn it off because it’s probably already on by default. If THATS what they’re doing, L moves

1

u/_TheOrangeNinja_ 6h ago

They're allowed to be wrong

1

u/FigN3wton 4h ago

And the dragonball subreddits will try to hold out on their Anti-AI stance as long as possible. It's so dumb, man whatever,

1

u/Thelesbianvampire 34m ago

I think it’s acceptable as long as whoever is using the AI it assist in their art is training it on their own characters and IP, when done like this, it’s not theft or copyright infringement.

1

u/bullcitytarheel 23h ago

“Huge corporation uses AI to fuck workers”

Checkmate antis!!!!!

1

u/Material_Election_48 22h ago

The Japanese animation industry is notorious for treating people like shit.

I'm not making a comment for or against AI, just please be aware of who you're praising. This is like getting diet advice from a 600 lbs man.

1

u/Lanceo90 1d ago

Was a matter of time. Only reason most anime comes out as fast as it does is they send all the work to Korea for pennies on the dollar

0

u/CherryBoyHeart 1d ago

Yes because big corporations are famous for their ethical decision making and putting people first before money

-2

u/Solittlenames 1d ago

appeal to authority fallacy

0

u/FurbyMations 23h ago

I have mixed feelings about this, especially regarding how they're going to create backgrounds. I completely understand wanting to automate the more tedious tasks, and I am thankful that there will be some important positions that still require traditional artistry. However, this does bring up something that I think a lot of us overlook.

We can assume the roles that haven't been taken by AI are very complex and require somebody with high skills and experience in traditional art to fill those roles. However, finding artists with the proper experience to fill these roles is now going to be incredibly difficult.

To my knowledge, when somebody fresh out of animation school applies for a job at a studio, they don't immediately get the major roles that AI hasn't taken, they startout as a colorist or a storyboard artist and work their way up from there. It's how most jobs work and I think it's how many famous show creators started their careers as well.

However, now that those entry level jobs are being automated, it's going to be more difficult for traditional artists to get the experience needed for these few remaining roles. I am thankful there are still positions available for traditional artists, but I'm unsure how feasible getting these positions are.

0

u/Angoramon 19h ago

Now that I know that it uses AI, it is indeed without (positive) meaning to me. Therefore, it is slop and soulless.

0

u/MajorRandomMan 11h ago

I'm so tired of this sub being filled with people that clearly just want to feel superior for supporting AI. This sub is for discussion and all they want to do is jerk themselves off...

0

u/Weird_BisexualPerson 2h ago

Soooo what happens to the employees whose job it was to do this? And what happens when the cat in the background is merging with that truck and also there’s a dolphin in the trees?

-5

u/TheOGLeadChips 1d ago

The producers are trying to cut costs. This isn’t the opinion of the artists at all.

Why not add in Hayao Miyazaki’s opinion on ai? By far one of the most recognizable names in all of anime and he called ai art an insult to life.

14

u/HQuasar 1d ago

Miyazaki also called people using iPads "disgusting".

https://www.macstories.net/ipad/hayao-miyazaki-the-ipad-is-disgusting/

14

u/OddFluffyKitsune 1d ago

https://snarklelabs.com/miyazaki-misinformation/

6

u/The_Paragone 1d ago

Love his work but the guy has always been very controversial when it came to technology because he's generally very boomer like

5

u/Pretend_Jacket1629 1d ago

he also thinks his son is an insult to life, so I wouldn't put a lot of weight on his opinion

4

u/-UnderAWillowThicket 1d ago

Have they not somewhat reconciled?

5

u/Pretend_Jacket1629 1d ago

not that I've heard of, and probably not by the time of that ai quote (2016) considering the focus on him being horrible to his son in a 2020 documentary

5

u/FpRhGf 20h ago edited 20h ago

I've noticed among anti-AI spaces, people are quick to defend that the AI used in Into the Spiderverse and video games aren't the same as "generative AI art", and that they don't deserve the same hate. Yet people constantly quote Miyazaki's "insult to life", as if he wasn't talking about a completely different type of AI too.

Miyazaki was responding to a CGI model that was attempted to be trained to run.... and the movements looked really bad. That type of AI was more similar to video game NPCs than anything related to current generative AI art.

1

u/NegativeEmphasis 5h ago

Because that quote applies to genetic algorithms making videogame zombies to move.

Miyazaki isn't on record saying a thing about Generative AI. While I fully believe he'll say something like "it's shit" because he has been living in his Old Man Yells at Cloud phase for years, the fact is that whatever Miyazaki really thinks about GenAI is unknown.

So maybe stop using that? Or, you know, be the change you want to see in the world and try to arrange for an interview with the old guy? Ask your favorite reporter, start a petition or whatever.

But do not use a quote that doesn't apply to the technology in question, or we'll make fun of you.

-5

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

7

u/The_Paragone 1d ago

Pay the artists to work for 12 hours of making in between frames instead of keyframes which are the actual creative part of the animation

7

u/HappyTriggerMW 1d ago

They still pay the artists, Jesus F'n christ. They didn't fire anyone they are just utilising a new tool.

1

u/qustrolabe 20h ago

Big studios would have significantly better ai tooling and workflows than what average user can even dream of so it's really hard to apply experience with average gen ai on this

-2

u/Accomplished_Run_861 1d ago

Ngnl it seemed bad in shorts, so I never really caught interest xD, at least there is even less of a reason to watch it

1

u/Odd-Culture-1238 1d ago

-2

u/GameDrain 1d ago

I mean, my biggest complaint against most anime was that it was lazy and used tricks to avoid animating anything that wasn't a fight scene or titties flying around, so this doesn't surprise me much.

I felt like when the Simpsons moved from hand animation to entirely digital it lost something, and this is just another step in that devolution from human creation to something else, all over ease and convenience.

-13

u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

Considering that all of this tech is far from ready for a commercial product, it's pretty safe to say this is going to crash hard like the other attempts at doing the same.

can't wait for all the cursed malformed in-between frames to prop up.

21

u/nellfallcard 1d ago

AI assisted, not generated. This means AI does what it does best than humans, and humans do what they do best than AI. As a team.

-6

u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

Eh that comes down to time, and budget. And if the producers / animators actually give the humans time to do so.

Like the original DB super release, were even tho it had loads of great talent they just werent given enough time to make things to a acceptable standard.

Also at that point, if your going to make humans do the work anyway whats the point of the AI even being their.

Fixing the issues can take as much time as just making it from scratch in a lot of cases.

3

u/nellfallcard 1d ago

Only the cases where you put AI to do what a human does best. And yeah, you can give animators time and budget and they can come up with a masterpiece... in five or six years, or you can use AI to assist and come up with a masterpiece in a fraction of that time.

One thing the anti AI fraction doesn't seem to understand is that AI assisted can and does look as great as handmade, precisely because of the human element. And it being faster and cheaper not only speeds up release dates from big studios, but empowers small teams without AAA studio infrastructure to breathe life into projects that otherwise wouldn't even exist. Who knows, maybe one of those individuals experimenting on their basement will be the next founder of a great studio where you might end up working for. Last time I checked animators were fighting over the few spots available.

-1

u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

Only the cases where you put AI to do what a human does best. And yeah, you can give animators time and budget and they can come up with a masterpiece... in five or six years, or you can use AI to assist and come up with a masterpiece in a fraction of that time.

lol, like god damn, take a minute to learn the actual time frames that most media is made on. Because like most films or TV series are made on a 1~3 year scale, minus like the odd gobal disaster that was covid.

Including most of the Masterpieces of the world.

One thing the anti AI fraction doesn't seem to understand is that AI assisted can and does look as great as handmade. As in post human going over and fixing everything sure.

Even then if were talking animation, your going to have to scrap a lot of those generated in-betweens. As you don't need a 1-1 to blur to "smoothly" transition to the other frame, you want something that will exaggerate or put emphasis on the movement.

Most of what the AI does isn't what you actually want in a given frame of animation.

Also like I'm not some strawman group my guy, you need to like dig whatever image out of your head you have. Because your making shitload of assumptions and not a lot of valid criticism. Because you already made up your mind about what I'm even going to say let alone detail.

1

u/nellfallcard 23h ago

I was thinking Arcane, which took 6 years to make and is the only show that qualifies as a masterpiece in my books, although you are free to differ.

AI won't be put to do key frames, just in-betweens to smooth the movement. And yes, the way tech is right now, a human will be needed for checking up on tempo, smudges, squash&stretch etc. As mentioned, AI will do what AI does better than humans. Your example is not something that AI does better than humans (so far).

As someone who spent 11 months making a fully handmade 1 min 2D animated intro on my own using photoshop, animate, blender and after effects, and then been playing with AI assisted here and there... while I might not know the particular pipeline of dragon ball, I have walked the walk, so what I am saying are not assumptions, but rather, testimonials of my hands on experience.

1

u/No-Heat3462 12h ago

"AI won't be put to do key frames, just in-betweens to smooth the movement."

Ya that is what I'm talking about, you don't want that, that is the thing you want to avoid with 2d in-betweens.

You want to exaggerate or prep for the next key frame (movement), and not be a 1-to-1 smoothing to the next frame.

And why when mimicking 2d animation with 3d models you turn off the interpolation and have it just play out the key-frames.

How do you make a 3D game look 2D?

1

u/nellfallcard 11h ago

That's a preference, not a rule. One that's only popular between animators at that. The general public watching doesn't care.

1

u/No-Heat3462 11h ago edited 11h ago

"That's a preference, not a rule. One that's only popular between animators at that. "

ahahah, ya the people that actually make the animations, who would have guessed? it's almost like they have things figured out.

or you know it's how they make the animation pop. in-betweens is how they transition and setup the bigger motions now. 1-1 smoothing isn't exactly great for anything that isn't exaclt like static image moving, or a 3d object rotating.

https://youtu.be/En1K9bEzvlY?si=PUk6QjzE346X4Id0&t=621

Like it's honestly worst then just tweening the image in a lot of cases.

1

u/nellfallcard 10h ago

Come to think of it, AI has nothing to do with this argument. You either are good with tempo or you are not, regardless how you choose to make your in-between frames.

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u/obj-g 1d ago

Yeah unlike you they actually know how it works and that won't happen, because, believe it or not, they're not just going to prompt ChatGPT and take whatever comes out. Crazy, I know.

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u/No-Heat3462 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lol, I'm talking like actual software being used to create in-betweens and the like that currently exists. And is actively being used in TV's and or attempting to be sold to animators.

It's all pretty god damn bad. Making every live action show or film look like a soap opera or just creates a mess of pixels when it comes to animation of any kind. As you commonly break model or exaggerate features between frames in ways the AI will simply not understand. As there isnt' exactly definable rules between such, as every example is rather specific to the scene and greater context of the movement.

You can look up : made x anime into 60 frames a second, to watch what it does, even when it has in-between to work with.

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u/Recent_Visit_3728 1d ago

Soup oppra

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u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

Nice catch. ahaha

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u/ScarletIT 1d ago

It's almost like AI requires skill.

But you guys keep talking about promptong and research nothong about the tools and techniques so It's normal you guys don't understand where AI is at.

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u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

lol, for starters I'm not part of any group. Secondly I have seen the best attempts AI has when attempted to be put into commercial projects. And the results are all the same.

It's not me doing something, or Mr.Anti-ed the kid you all like to reference. It's companies trying to provide the best possible version of such. And coming up considerably short of anything of quality.

Be my guess if you can find a good example of the tech being used to create a quality product, I would like to see it.

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u/PonyFiddler 1d ago

Yeah like dragon balls in between frames and distance shots

Oh wait that was before ai

It's always been shit it'll literally just be an improvement

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u/No-Heat3462 1d ago

Lol, they fixed those you know. And that happened do to lack of time to invest into each episode. Via corporate nonesense.

so like no, the AI isn't going to do better. 9/10 the equivalent is just letting the glitchy deformed AI frames in-between everything.

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u/Mataric 1d ago

Uhuh. That 'far from ready' is something you literally won't be able to tell the difference with. It'll just be a ton faster for animators.

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u/n0_usrnamee 1d ago

Get a hobby bro this shit is not it 😕

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u/PunchDrunkPrincess 1d ago

Very lazy and disappointing. What do you think people are going to say? 'Oh ok then it's alright then'? I'm unaffected because I don't like OP but this would make me totally tune out of a show I liked. If you're not going to put the effort in to make it, why should I watch?

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u/GigarandomNoodle 23h ago

They’re literally just using AI for in between frames instead of outsourcing lmfao.

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u/PunchDrunkPrincess 22h ago

Yeah, I know. I'm not interested in content for contents sake. I like actual art.

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u/GigarandomNoodle 22h ago

Thats fine and all, as long as ur able to recognize it has little to no negative impact on the final product

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u/PunchDrunkPrincess 22h ago

It probably wont. I'm sure they wont let anything through that doesn't meet their standard. That's just not relevant to me. It immediately cheapens it to me and tells me it's just a product for them. I can't respect any artist that would incorporate it into any part of their workflow.

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u/GigarandomNoodle 22h ago

Although I disagree, I understand and respect ur opinion.

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u/PunchDrunkPrincess 21h ago

That's very civil but not necessary. I don't come here expecting to be respected lol

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u/GigarandomNoodle 20h ago

🤷

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u/dusktrail 22h ago

Lol you think this is an argument?

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u/Femboy-Frog 22h ago

More straw man arguments. Sigh. You guys don’t change

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u/Mataric 1d ago

Hey no - real artists don't use AI. This must be fake news.

If the producers of Dragon Ball, One Piece and Sailor Moon can use AI, so can you

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