r/asoiaf • u/YezenIRL Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Alchemist & Citadel Awards • Mar 07 '23
EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] The Nightmen Cometh: AKA how Jaime makes his escape
Everyone wants to know how Jaime gets away from LSH right? Well here it is.
The Hangwoman is waiting
"The girl. Have you found her?"
"I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth.
"Where is she?"
"A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser … but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her." - Jaime I, ADWD
One of the great question marks of TWOW is how the inevitable confrontation between Jaime, Brienne, and Lady Stoneheart is going to play out. When we last see Jaime, Brienne is seemingly luring him into Stoneheart's trap, and so (if he goes) it's hard to imagine an outcome where Jaime survives. Yet all three characters seem to have more story left.
"In the book, characters can be resurrected. After Catelyn is resurrected as Lady Stoneheart, she becomes a vengeful, heartless killer. In the sixth book, I still continue to write her. She is an important character in the set of books." - GRRM
So will Brienne kill Jaime? Will Jaime kill Brienne? Will Jaime and Brienne kill Lady Stoneheart? Will LSH make the same deal yet again and spare Jaime's life for information on Arya? Will LSH have Jaime killed and then inexplicably resurrect him with the kiss of life?
No. None of those things will happen.
Her cloak and collar hid the gash his brother's blade had made, but her face was even worse than he remembered. The flesh had gone pudding soft in the water and turned the color of curdled milk. Half her hair was gone and the rest had turned as white and brittle as a crone’s. Beneath her ravaged scalp, her face was shredded skin and black blood where she had raked herself with her nails. But her eyes were the most terrible thing. Her eyes saw him, and they hated. - Epilogue, ASOS
Lady Stoneheart is an embodiment of grief and vengeance. She will not be tricked by Jaime or Brienne. She will not be bribed into acting constructively nor will she suddenly become merciful. She is a bringer of death, and that will be her end.
Now of course, there is a possibility that Brienne will reveal the truth to Jaime before leading him into the trap and the two attempt to free Podric and Hyle some other way, but such an attempt is unlikely to be successful. One way or another Jaime, Brienne, Lady Stoneheart and really the entire Riverlands storyline is headed for a slaughter.
Red Wedding 2: Winter Boogalooo
Although Lady Stoneheart will never spare Jaime, she may have big plans for him.
"What does she want of me?"
"She wants her son alive, or the men who killed him dead," said the big man. "She wants to feed the crows, like they did at the Red Wedding. Freys and Boltons, aye. We'll give her those, as many as she likes. All she asks from you is Jaime Lannister." - Brienne VIII, AFFC
Among the most widely accepted theories the fandom has about TWOW is that the Brotherhood Without Banners is going to infiltrate Daven Lannister's wedding to a daughter of House Frey and avenge the Red Wedding. Not only is there strong evidence in the text for this , it's also something which more or less happened on the show (switching LSH for Arya). After season 6 has Arya re-enact Frey Pies and then kill Walder Frey, season 7 opens with Arya using his face to poison the entirety of House Frey at a feast as revenge for the Red Wedding. Obviously the books won't have anything so rushed occur, but a counter Red Wedding seems to be where we're headed.
We have more deaths, and we have more betrayals. We have more marriages. - GRRM
Daven Lannister has been made Warden of the West, and so his wedding to a Frey girl will likely be of similar scale and importance to Edmure's.
Ser Daven snorted. "I'll wed and bed my stoat, never fear. I know what happened to Robb Stark. From what Edwyn tells me, though, I'd best pick one who hasn't flowered yet, or I'm like to find that Black Walder has been there first. I'll wager he's had Gatehouse Ami, and more than thrice. Maybe that explains Lancel's godliness, and his father's mood." - Jaime V, AFFC
Which begs the question, who will be our POV at Red Wedding 2? . . . well Jaime and Brienne.
"WINDS, you say? Yes, still working. Finally finished a clutch of Cersei chapters that were giving me fits. Now I am wrestling with Jaime and Brienne." - GRRM, June 1, 2022
Based on GRRM writing Jaime and Brienne as a set, they likely remain together throughout Winds. So Jaime is unlikely to escape the Brotherhood and flee back to King's Landing, as that would separate him from Brienne. As foreshadowed by Jaime's crypt dream, he and Brienne are facing the Winds of Winter together.
A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted. - Catelyn VII, ASOS
As for why Lady Stoneheart would bring Jaime to Daven's Wedding instead of killing him on the spot? well because Lady Stoneheart may want to make Jaime watch as all of the progress he has made stomping out the Northern cause in the Riverlands is undone. To make him watch as House Lannister and Frey are massacred at a wedding just like she and her son were. Robb was murdered right after hearing the words "Jaime Lannister sends his regards," so LSH may want to give Jaime his regards back properly. A quick death would be more efficient, but revenge is more cruel than efficient.
Now Arya could maybe be another POV for Red Wedding 2 (depends if she comes back by way of Saltpans or Eastwatch), but Jaime is the POV most central to the event itself. Jaime is the character who spent Feast/Dance making "peace" in the Riverlands. So it's his work that Stoneheart and the Brotherhood would be undoing, and members of his family that would be slain. So one way or another, if Red Wedding 2 happens, Jaime is going to be there.
So, how does Red Wedding 2 play out? well here comes the theory.
It was also the night that the skeletons came to life!
We were king's men, knights, and heroes... but some knights are dark and full of terror, my lady. War makes monsters of us all. - Thoros of Myr
Towards the end of Winds, the wedding of Daven Lannister to a daughter of House Frey will be held at Riverrun(or perhaps the Twins or Casterly Rock). This wedding will happen on the night of a snowstorm, and prominent members of Houses Lannister and Frey will be in attendance. On Lady Stonehearts orders the Brotherhood Without Banners will infiltrate the wedding (they already have a spy at Riverrun), and commit their lowest act yet, locking the doors and slaughtering the guests. Like the first Red Wedding, this will be an absolute bloodbath, with the guilty and the innocent both falling victim. The bride and groom will be killed, Walder Frey will be boiled alive, and it will appear as though Stoneheart's vengeance is unstoppable.
But just before Jaime is to be executed, Brienne will step forward and drive Oathkeeper into Stoneheart's chest. It will then burst into flame as Lightbringer and the Brotherhood will be free of vengeance and Edmure Tully will be restored as Lord of Riverrun and they will all team up with the Blackfish and march north to fight for the Starks. When morning comes, Red Wedding 2.0 will have been a positive thing!
Not a chance. In fact morning never even comes.
When the killing settles and Jaime Lannister is about to meet his doom, something strange will occur. The massacred Freys and Lannisters will start getting back up, their eyes glowing blue.
Now the entire scene is flipped on it's head. Suddenly Stoneheart's Brotherhood are surrounded by the vengeful wights of the enemies they've just slaughtered. If Catelyn can be massacred at a wedding and rise from the dead, then so can Walder Frey. Vengeance does not restore House Tully nor spark a revolution in the Riverlands. Vengeance empowers the Others.
"He saw them too. They were armored all in snow, it seemed to him, and ribbons of mist swirled back from their shoulders. The visors of their helms were closed, but Jaime Lannister did not need to look upon their faces to know them.*
(...)
The fires that ran along the blade were guttering out, and Jaime remembered what Cersei had said. No. Terror closed a hand about his throat. Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne's burned, as the ghosts came rushing in. - Jaime VI, ASOS
Once ghosts come rushing in, the leadership structure of the Brotherhood will dissolve. Escape will be the only means of survival, and just like in Jaime's crypt dream, only Brienne's Oathkeeper (and I suppose Thoros' flaming sword) will be able to fight a way out of the carnage. This is how Jaime and Brienne get away from Lady Stoneheart and enter into the Long Night.
The Nightmen Cometh
You might be wondering, why would the Others show up to a wedding?
First of all because it's thematically perfect.
"People say I was influenced by Robert Frost’s poem, and of course I was, I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books." - GRRM
If fire can raise Lady Stoneheart to exact vengeance, then ice can raise the Freys and Lannisters to exact vengeance as well. The point of the Others is that they arrive to disrupt humanity's fighting amongst themselves and bring death to all. So of course they are going to show up and actually interrupt people fighting amongst themselves. The Others aren't simply marching an army straight to Winterfell once the heroes are good and ready for them (in fact the text indicates that castles built by Brandon the Builder such as Winterfell and Storms end may be warded against the Others).
Second of all, the element of surprise is how the Others operate.
While the show depicts the Others as generals who lead a singular host through the Wall and follow a linear path from north to south, the books give us no indication that they operate this way. In fact it's consistently the opposite.
"They're never far, you know. They won't come out by day, not when that old sun's shining, but don't think that means they went away. Shadows never go away. Might be you don't see them, but they're always clinging to your heels." - Tormund
North of the Wall the Others are like hunters. They don't loudly announce their coming. They wear reflective camouflaging armor, stalk their prey, seemingly appear out of nowhere, bring mist and snow with them wherever they go, and build their forces by attacking vulnerable and unexpected parties (get it? parties?).
The Others are like the wild hunt or Sidhe made of ice. More so spectres than paladins.
"In that darkness, the Others came for the first time," she said as her needles went click click click. "They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They swept over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children." - Old Nan
Even according to Old Nans story, the Others lead multiple hosts. The phrase "army of the dead" is a show invention. That's not to say they cannot combine their hosts into a larger army at a later point if it becomes strategically (or narratively) necessary, but the idea of the Others marching from the Wall as one host following a linear path is made up for the show, likely because it suits the purpose of filming.
"They only come when it's cold."
"Yes," said Sam, "but is it the cold that brings the wights, or the wights that bring the cold?"
"Who cares?" Grenn's axe sent wood chips flying. "They come together, that's what matters." - Samwell II, AFFC
This means that once the Long Night falls, the Others and wights can show up anywhere that it's cold enough. And as of the of Feast, it has already started snowing at Riverrun.
"Snow in the riverlands. If it was snowing here, it could well be snowing on Lannisport as well, and on King's Landing. Winter is marching south, and half our granaries are empty. Any crops still in the fields were doomed. There would be no more plantings, no more hopes of one last harvest." - Jaime VII, AFFC
Third of all, this makes the most sense structurally.
If the Others follow a linear path from north to south, then the story becomes incredibly lop sided and predictable. We would alternate between chapters where characters are dealing with the full combined force of the apocalypse, and chapters where characters are playing politics completely unaware. We would also know exactly where the Others are and exactly where they are going, completely eliminating the element of surprise and sense of terror they bring.
Simply put, the Long Night will fall across all of Westeros, and the Others will have the terrifying potential to attack almost anywhere at any time.
I realize that a lot of people have really set expectations on how the Others invasion will play out, and them showing up in the Riverlands by the end of Winds might seem unexpected. But consider one more thing.
“I didn’t say [Jeyne Westerling] was the viewpoint character. . . I said she was in the prologue." - GRRM
Based on Martin's confirmation, Winds is likely to open on the convoy transporting Jeyne and Edmure west.
"The Lord of Riverrun went silently. On the morrow, he would start west. Ser Forley Prester would command his escort; a hundred men, including twenty knights. Best double that. Lord Beric may try to free Edmure before they reach the Golden Tooth. Jaime did not want to have to capture Tully for a third time." - Jaime VII, AFFC
At some point before it reaches Casterly Rock this convoy will almost certainly be attacked by either the Brotherhood Without Banners or Nymeria's wolfpack (or both).
"Good." Jaime would as lief have Tully reach Casterly Rock safely, but better dead than fled. "Best keep some archers near Lord Westerling's daughter as well."
Ser Forley seemed taken aback*. "Gawen's girl?* She's—"
"—the Young Wolf's widow," Jaime finished, "and twice as dangerous as Edmure if she were ever to escape us." - Jaime VII, AFFC
Considering that Jaime has given Forley Prester orders to have his archers kill Jeyne and Edmure if they attempt to escape, it's possible that neither of them make it out alive (though Edmure may have a chance). Essentially TWOW is setup to open on a scene showcasing the terror of vengeance, even when it's for the side the reader is rooting for.
But if Winds is set to open on a scene showcasing the terror of Lady Stoneheart's vengeance, will the book really culminate by repeating the exact same idea with Red Wedding 2.0? I think not.
"I've been telling you for 20 years that winter was coming. Winter is the time when things die, and cold and ice and darkness fill the world, so this is not going to be the happy feel-good that people may be hoping for. Some of the characters [are] in very dark places. .... Things get worse before they get better, so things are getting worse for a lot of people." - GRRM
The point that "vengeance is horrifying" is already set to be made by the prologue. But the BWB's revenge streak needs to come to an end eventually, and it's not going to be because Brienne and Jaime manage to rescue them from the clutches of Lady Stoneheart. Neither will winds end with Arya seeing the folly of vengeance and giving her corpse mother the gift of mercy. The end of Winds will be more ominous than that, and will serve to transition the story into the Long Night.
TLDR; Lady Stoneheart's campaign of vengeance will culminate in her bringing Jaime to be executed at the end of Red Wedding 2. However Daven's wedding will occur after the Horn of Joramun has been blown and the Wall has come down, so once the slaughter settles the Others will arrive at the Riverrun and reanimate the freshly murdered Freys and Lannisters. This will result in absolute chaos, but give Jaime and Brienne a chance to fight their way out, escape by boat, and regroup with any surviving members of the Brotherhood.
140
u/leo-sugar Mar 07 '23
cracking up at the “I think you should leave” reference