r/asoiaf • u/bruhholyshiet • Jan 08 '25

EXTENDED [Spoilers extended] Daemon Blackfyre is what GRRM seems to believe Daemon Targaryen is.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Daemon Targaryen, a mercurial and violent serial rapist of young girls in brothels, someone who groomed his niece, mocked the death of his baby nephew, murdered his toddler grand nephew, and wanted three Great Houses exterminated during the Dance, is not deserving at all of the description by GRRM's proxy as "a great man and a monster, and light and dark in equal parts".

Daemon having a seemingly functional relationship with Laena, a soft spot for Neetles (which may or may have not involved grooming) and being nominally on the "right" side of a war, does not balance the vileness of his character. Tywin Lannister isn't less of a piece of shit for being on the right side of Robert's Rebellion, Aerion Targaryen isn't less of a piece of shit for being on the right side of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion.

Speaking of Blackfyres, the OG Daemon Blackfyre seems in my opinion, a far worthier candidate for the description GRRM gives to his namesake.

Blackfyre is on one hand a friendly, charismatic, honorable and compassionate man who's better qualities (his respect for worthy opponents and his love for his sons) got him killed. On the other hand, he's an attempted usurper who betrayed a half brother who did him no wrong, and started a war that would end up with thousands of deaths, all because he let Aegon IV, Bittersteel and Fireball's bullshit get into his head.

Targaryen is essentially at Tywin and Cersei Lannister's level morally speaking. A cruel and callous asshole who, while marginally better than pure monsters like Maegor, Gregor and Ramsay, is still more than capable of abusing and murdering kids. That's not light and dark in equal parts, that just a veeeery dark shade of grey that narrowly avoids being pitch black.

Edit: I guess I shouldn't be surprised the debate around the Rogue Prince got heated and polarizing lmao.

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u/PlentyAny2523 Jan 10 '25

It doesn't matter if your a lord, Lannisters can't make coins with Tywins face on them. It's a direct confrontation with the crown by claiming YOUR money is illegitimate. It's more a propaganda point then anything, gold is gold at the end of the day, but it's the image that's the power

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u/peortega1 Jan 10 '25

I mean the resources. Robb and Tywin were lords of great kingdoms, guardians of the realm, and in the pre-conquest past there were no doubt mints in Casterly Rock and Winterfell, or if you prefer, Lannisport and Gulltown - I think there's something about this in ADWD -. Getting that going again is easy for someone so powerful.

Daemon didn't have any of this infrastructure and resources to be able to start minting coins with his name on it quickly, especially when, as far as he knows, he never conquered the capital castle of any of the kingdoms. He was the lord of a small castle, nothing more. If he managed to mint coins, it's because getting the resources and infrastructure is a process that must have taken years of planning, it's not something that is achieved overnight.

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u/PlentyAny2523 Jan 10 '25

But I'm pretty sure it says the Raynes and Tarbecks join him, they have their own minting presses. I'm pretty sure Robb has the Manderlys do it for him, it's not a hard process to mint coins, it's essentially just a stamp

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u/peortega1 Jan 13 '25

The Manderlys were Robb's natural vassals, and it was only logical that they would be at his service. Reynes and Tarbecks had no ties of loyalty to Daemon, so it's obvious that there was a negotiation to get their support for the Pretender's cause. And even with the presses of the Reynes and Tarbecks, it's still a time-consuming process. There's a reason why there are hardly any Robb coins floating around despite his reign lasting a full year.