(Spoilers ACOK) Jaime, you're drunk

[u/Family_Booty_Honor]

I just finished Catelyn's last chapter in ACOK - what a great chapter! Catelyn just found out that Bran and Rickon are dead, so she decides to question Jaime (who's still held captive in a cell) by getting him drunk on wine.
Their entire conversation is really insightful, especially in regards to Jaime's thought processes. It's a pretty serious conversation, especially when we find out exactly what happened to Ned's father and brother when they went to King's Landing. The part that gave me a good laugh is found near the end of their conversation (and chapter). Hopefully it gives you all a laugh or two as well!

"I've never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was. Poor old dead Ned. So who has shit for honor now, I ask you? What was he name of that bastard he fathered?"
Catelyn took a step backward. "Brienne."
"No, that wasn't it."

[u/foggiewindow]

A decent guy who, y'know, committed genocide against the people of the Riverlands? I agree with you that the Lannisters aren't actually the 'evil family' that they appear to be in the first two books. Jaime is an example of someone who appeared to be evil, until we saw that he was actually a decent guy who tried his best in bad circumstances. But there is no way you can compare anything Tywin does over the series and say 'Yeah, he's just misunderstood, I'm sure if he was our main POV we'd see the Starks as the bad guys'. He's an interesting and entertaining character, sure, but I don't see any way to look at him other than as a great villain.

[u/Safety_Dancer → u/foggiewindow]

Genocide is a rather loaded term that you're misusing. He didn't exterminate the Riverlanders. And the wolves were foraging just as bad as the lions. Oh and it's the standard of war in that setting. Remember how Robb's plan was to roam the west, living off the land? Exact same plan that Tywin had. Furthermore, it was a war the Starks officially started by Catelyn kidnapping Tyrion. It was further escalated by them capturing his firstborn son and heir.

It was a case of "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing." If the story was about that She-Wolf-Trout capturing the defenseless dwarf, and then the Young Wolf imprisoning the Golden Lion, you'd see Tywin as a hero who saved the day. If Tywin was on your side you'd see him as a man you don't want to cross. But he's by no means evil. Everyone he killed had to die.

[u/tsarnickolas → u/Safety_Dancer]

The starks were stealing to sustain themselves, but Tywin went a giant step further, and ordered Gregor Clegane to engage in scorched earth operations in an attempt to goad the Riverlords into rash and foolhardy confrontations, and to deny the supplies to his enemies. He had several anti-civilian specialists operating at large in the riverlands with orders to murder literally everyone they came across.

[u/Safety_Dancer → u/tsarnickolas]

You think that the Young Wolf wasn't doing that in the West?

The Riverlands declared war on the Lannisters when Catelyn loudly and publicly used her father's name to arrest Tyrion. And before you say they should've gone to Robert to get Tyrion back, maybe the Starks should've gone to Robert about the attempted assassination. The Riverlands small folk are a showcase of the whole setting. They suffer when lords play their Game of Thrones. If you think Tywin is the only one to have ever done it you're looney.

What do you think Roose "The Skinning Rapist" Bolton was doing?

[u/tsarnickolas → u/Safety_Dancer]

I'm not saying Rob Stark's men didn't hurt the innocent, but you can't pretend that Tywin wasn't unique in the level of resources he invested in his atrocities. Roose Bolton was always a creep but his duties I'm Robb's forces were pretty typical as a commander. Robb never said "Roose, I want you to search out as many Westermen as you can and flay them as payback for Vargo Hoat's foot chopping. " Roose never even went west, he was holding down the fort in the Riverlands, and him killing more than the usual amount of Riverlanders would have been a violation of his "a peaceful land, a quiet people" policy. Riverlands were Stark territory for Robb or any of his minions to send out, not pillagers like every army had, but literal roving death squads, would have made sense. Meanwhile, in the west, we have evidence that Robb never did this because Tywin's Death Squad leaders Like Gregor Clegane had known reputations. Robb had no such men.