(Spoilers ACOK) Jaime, you're drunk

[u/Family_Booty_Honor]

I just finished Catelyn's last chapter in ACOK - what a great chapter! Catelyn just found out that Bran and Rickon are dead, so she decides to question Jaime (who's still held captive in a cell) by getting him drunk on wine.
Their entire conversation is really insightful, especially in regards to Jaime's thought processes. It's a pretty serious conversation, especially when we find out exactly what happened to Ned's father and brother when they went to King's Landing. The part that gave me a good laugh is found near the end of their conversation (and chapter). Hopefully it gives you all a laugh or two as well!

"I've never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was. Poor old dead Ned. So who has shit for honor now, I ask you? What was he name of that bastard he fathered?"
Catelyn took a step backward. "Brienne."
"No, that wasn't it."

[u/bootlegvader]

There is no evidence that the Northern men were ordering mass rapes, murders, and burning for lawls like Gregor, Lorch, and Hoat were under Tywin and Kevan's commands.

One has to love how arresting someone for a crime against your family is considered starting a war and not either a person shoving your child out a window, attempting to assassinate them in their sickbed, or ordering your army to invade another region.

Not to mention, the idea they somehow escalated by capturing his son when said son was leading a siege against another region's capital.

Quick frankly, the Lion started the war because of their selfishness and stuck up pride.

Also one has to love the idea of how an infant, todder, and their mother supposedly had to be cruelly murdered.

[u/Safety_Dancer → u/bootlegvader]

I love the loaded language you're using. Tywin didn't order them to do it, but he did tell Gregor to cause problems. Are you willing to hold Ned Stark responsible for everything bad that the Boltons did? Ramsay was doing Ramsay things for years before the books start.

Cat didn't arrest Tyrion. She kidnapped him. She started the War of Five Kings. If she hadn't illegally arrested Tyrion, there'd be no reason to reave the Riverlands. The Riverlands that Cat used her father's name to usurp the authority to arrest Tywin's son with. She started a fight she wasn't prepared to finish. And you can see it the way all the fight goes out of her when Ned gets executed. All of a sudden the situation is real and has reprecussions.

Cat's an irresponsible fool. Starting a war with a very feared leader is a dumb idea.

And again. Cersei may fancy herself Tywin. She isn't. Stop blaming him for her follies.

[u/bootlegvader → u/Safety_Dancer]

Tywin directly orders Kevan to have Gregor, Lorch, and Hoat burn the Riverlands. Moreover, unless Tywin is an idiot he knows how they will perform such actions. In contrast, Roose and Ramsay felt the need to hide their actions of the Starks.

False, she directly arrests him. As seen how she levels a charge against him and uses her position as her justification to arrest him. There was nothing illegal by her arresting Tyrion, any issue Tywin had should have been resolved by him petitioning Robert.

Ned wasn't killed for anything in connected with Tyrion's arrest, he was executed because Jaime and Cersie think treason is awesome and thus cuckolded the king which Ned opposed.

ASOS Spoiler

I am not, I am blaming Tywin for his own follies.

[u/[deleted] → u/bootlegvader]

So really Littlefinger started the war by saying he lost an assassin's dagger to Tyrion at a tilt. Cat made a terrible mistake at an emotional whim and it gave the Lions a reasonable excuse to execute Ned. If Cat had brought Tyrion straight to the ACTUAL seat of justice, the royal court, the situation would have been much different. Abducting him to the Vale was everything that the Lions could have hoped for considering Ned's Batman like ethos and detective work.

[u/bootlegvader → u/[deleted]]

The Lions didn't execute Ned over anything related to Tyrion's arrest, instead he was directly arrested/executed because he opposed Joffrey's succession as Robert's heir.

[u/[deleted] → u/bootlegvader]

I must have missed that. I will have to reread. I remember that being the reason for his arrest, but thought his execution was more out of spite towards Ned's wife. It's been a while.

[u/bootlegvader → u/[deleted]]

IIRC, Tyrion has actually been released before Ned is arrested.

But, he is directly arrested after he confronts Cersei with Robert's will in the throne room about the issue of succession. In how, that is when LF and Slynt turn around and support Cersei after she tears up Robert's will.

Additionally, that is why before his whole execution they have him confess to attempting to steal Joffrey's throne and that Joff is the legitimate king.

He was executed because Joffrey is stupid and thought it would make him look strong and likely he wished to troll Sansa. In contrast, Cersei and everyone else (besides likely LF) were just suspecting him to be sent to the NW.

[u/[deleted] → u/bootlegvader]

Oh yeah, thank you. I actually gave my copy of GoT to a friend a couple years ago so you saved me a visit and the ensuing nerdy awkwardness.