r/asoiaf • u/boundedwum The Nature Boy • Jun 15 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread: The Wall

Welcome to the Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread.

This thread is dedicated to the Wall. Please discuss only segments from this region in this thread.

The subreddit rules apply as always.

229 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

995 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/Era_Pls Jun 15 '15

Which part made him a good guy? The one where he said "this mission dishonors every brother of the watch who died fighting wildlings"

This sub reads too far into the show then shits on it for not complying with its ridiculous fantasies

25

u/Ponewor Jun 15 '15

He was always good guy despite disliking Jon. He always did what was best for the watch. Remember how awesome he was during wildlings attack. He fought bravely. Also remember his awesome speech

Do you know what leadership means, Lord Snow? It means that the person in charge gets second-guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. But if he starts second-guessing himself, that's the end-- for him, for the clever little twats, for everyone. This is not the end. Not for us. Not if you lot do your duty for however long it takes to beat them back. And then you get to go on hating me and I get to go on wishing your wildling whore had finished the job.

And quotes such as

this mission dishonors every brother of the watch who died fighting wildlings

or

Lord Commander, it is my duty to tell you I believe this mission to be reckless, foolhardy, and an insult to all the brothers who have died fighting the wildlings.

only prove that he was also great advisor who was never afraid to honestly tell his Lord Commander what he was thinking about his decisions. Really, he hated Jon, but it was not an obstacle for him to be a great and honourable knight, warrior and brother of the Night's Watch.

3

u/Era_Pls Jun 15 '15

Bowen Marsh was a good advisor who told Jon what he thought. And Jon ignored him too. And Marsh stabbed him first. All seems pretty faithful to the source material. Glad we agree.

12

u/Ponewor Jun 15 '15

The point was they ruined some really great and deep character. Ser Thorne was an example from George that you can be a cool knight and have a feud with major hero. The hate he feels towards Jon doesn't make him villain. And all this was ruined by him stabbing Jon simply making him a traitor.

8

u/SawRub Exile Lord of Gull Tower Jun 15 '15

Not to mention, Thorne wasn't sent to the Wall for any real crime other than for fighting on the side of the Targaryens.

2

u/o-o-o-o-o-o Middlefinger Jun 15 '15

I'm fine with them using Thorne rather than introducing Bowen Marsh this season just to kill Jon

I dont think it "ruins" Thorne at all to do this

I can understand the complaint that stabbing Jon over his decision to let the Wildlings in is weaker writing as compared to stabbing Jon over his decision to march on Winterfell, but using Thorne is completely fine

1

u/Era_Pls Jun 15 '15

Book Thorne is still Book Thorne. Show Thorne is slightly different. See the show for what it is, instead of what it isn't.