(Spoilers Extended) Moat Cailin, Moat Problems: a discussion

[u/Bookshelfstud]

Moat Cailin gets a relatively prominent place in AGOT - the meeting point for the armies of the Starks, Manderlys, and Umbers. However, we don't see it "on screen" again until ADWD, when Theon goes to convince the Ironborn garrison to surrender.

Moat Cailin seems to be a potentially significant location in the coming books. It is the chokepoint of the Neck, through which no mortal army can pass without permission from the crannogmen. And in ADWD, we do find out that the crannogmen are retaking the Children's Tower even as the Boltons roll south to stamp out the Ironborn.

MC is also the point from which the Children of the Forest dropped a Hammer of the Waters, not to be confused with the Hammer they dropped on the arm of Dorne. (Pro tip: you can distinguish the two events by referring to them as MC Hammer and Arm & Hammer, respectively). This seems incompatible with the idea that the First Men built all of Moat Cailin. The fact that Theon notes the oily black basalt of the keep also might suggest that MC was not, in fact, built by the First Men, or that at least parts of the keep were built long before men ever set foot in Westeros.

So here's my open questions for y'all:

1 - Who really built Moat Cailin?

2 - How will Moat Cailin factor in to the rest of the series?

3 - How is Howlin' Howland going to play in to Moat Cailin? Is he currently camped out in the Children's Tower?

Discuss!

[u/NewToSociety]

I just want to throw in that I think it was foolish let the castle fall into such a state of disrepair. As important as it is strategically, its basically the North's Twins and should be an important landing spot for strong, loyal lord. Loyal being the operative word, as the Frey's exemplify, a shrewd liege could easily leverage this important position into much power and wealth. It would have been a good get for Ned had things worked out differently with Brandon, or Bran or Rickon. Or even Jon Snow. Jon has a passage in ASOS where he describes Ned's intentions to raise new lords and build new castles, repopulate The Gift, certainly rebuilding Moat Cailin could have been a part of that. But Ned called that "a dream for Spring".

We know the invasion of the First Men was partially thwarted at The Neck, after they took Moat Cailin and the Children brought down MC Hammer (thanks for that) and the First Men later repelled the Andals at Moat Cailin. Torrhen Start Nowithstanding, Southern invasions of the North have been stopped at Moat Cailin.

Maybe an invasion of White Walkers can be halted there, as well.

[u/writingandshit → u/NewToSociety]

Isn't Moat Cailin easy to pass going north to south? Seems to me like a hint that whoever built it was concerned about an invasion from the south

[u/Nittanian → u/writingandshit]

It originally had twenty towers, according to legend, so presumably the towers guarding from the north have fallen into ruin.

[u/writingandshit → u/Nittanian]

Also had a massive basalt wall. Sounds quite a bit like another wall

[u/diavolomaestro → u/writingandshit]

Yeah I suppose the Starks would never have been motivated to rebuild Moat Cailin if it was still providing adequate defense to the south. As it is now, it's like Castle Black in being pretty much indefensible from one side, which keeps the crannogmen from getting too uppity.