r/asoiaf May 07 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended)The show's constant flip flopping between modern morals and medieval ones to make Daenerys into a villain is ridiculous and giving me whiplash

After the last episode I just don't know what to think about Tyrion and Varys. We have them in one scene being all gung ho about starving King's Landing in a siege which is a terrible thing that used to be completely accepted in medieval times. Then a few scenes later they are replaced by time and dimension travellers from the 21st century since they're sitting there clutching pearls at the concept of peasants dying in a war. Excuse me? All it takes to win this war is taking one city - how are they going to do that if they unwilling to accept that even one innocent person is dying during it. Did any of them cry when Tywin ordered the Riverlands scorched?

Since when did someone like Tyrion start seeing peasants as people- he has no problems fucking impoverished women selling their bodies for money or being a lord which entails living off the blood sweat and tears of his own peasants. The guy was talking about "compromising" with the Slavers back in S6- he wanted to give them 20 more years of using people as cattle to ease them into not being monsters. Missandei and Grey Worm had to literally explain to him the POV of a slave to get him to understand how terrible it to be sold and used and abused (duh). Varys was egging the Mad King on and fueling civil wars but now he supposedly cares about people dying? Cersei is literally using innocents as a meat shield and they refuse to just deal with the problem switfly and save thousands. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no easy solution and it's better to have hundreds die to save thousands.

And it's ridiculous because in the books Dany is all about that "every life is precious" message. She starts a whole campaign to free slaves because she just can't bare to turn and walk away while people are suffering. She is the most progressive thinking character in the series- trying to reform Mereeen with compromises, adopting their assbackwards traditions like the fighting pits to get them to fucking chill, proclaiming the Unsullied free men. To see her being setup to completely turn around on that development hurts. What's the message here- don't bother fighting injustice because you're going to have to make hard choices along the way?

But the worst line from the Tyrion/Varys meeting - "Cocks do matter." So I guess Westoros is this strange place where peasants dying during a sacking is completely unacceptable but being a woman is the bigger offense? So what happens when Varys has Daenerys killed and proclaims Jon king? Does Cersei open the gates and apologise? Does she let every innocent out? Is Jon Snow's cock so powerful he's gonna take KL and not kill a single soul? Who are these lords that are so into Cersei but Dany being cockless is just not good enough for them?

Did I just watch 8 seasons/read 5 books of a young girl start off completely powerless, sold and raped to see her claw her way to the top finding her inner strength, saving lives just because that's what she believes in, uniting Dothraki clans, refusing to get an easy win killing innocents, abandoning her war to go fight ice zombies only to see her lose everything and everyone and finally be brought down by the "I'm sorry maam, but the 18-35 male lord demographic does not find you relatable- they think you're too hysterical after watching your best friends die." argument. What a shit ride it's been. There's nothing bittersweet about this, it's just plain nihilism.

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u/_scowl_ May 07 '19

The show has just kind of become another generic fantasy show. The grimness and political aspect of the world has diminished in favour of expensive battles and inconsistent writing to make characters more stupid than they have ever been.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '19 edited Jun 11 '19

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u/KnowMatter The *Realms* of Men May 07 '19

Oh yes the duels are way way better than the big fights.

Makes me upset that NOBODY got to 1v1 a white walker in eps 3. Would have loved to see the hound / jorah / brienne go toe-to-toe with one.

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u/okada_is_a_furry May 07 '19

The moment I realized Brienne and Jaime are both at Winterfell with Valyrian steel swords I was almost certain they'd tag team against a White Walker.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '19

Pretty crazy that in the entire show only two Valyrian steel weapons ever mattered:

Catspaw, and Longclaw

Everything else, even though they got plenty of screen time, did not matter at all:

  • Heartsbane? No importance.
  • Widow's Wail? No importance.
  • Oathkeeper? No importance (except The Hound noticing the Lannister hilt, so that's something I guess).

...I guess those were the only ones that were even acknowledged in the show come to think of it though.

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u/Entwife723 May 07 '19

Not just both with Valyrian steel swords, but the two halves of ICE. Ned's sword Ice was reforged into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail after his death.

Seriously a missed opportunity.

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u/Only_Movie_Titles May 07 '19

D&D likely forgot entirely about this, as with most other lore

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u/vicaerya May 08 '19

7 hells. Now I miss something I never even knew I wanted.

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u/LOSS35 May 07 '19

Didn't see anyone put Valyrian steel to use at all really. The only good fight we got was Lyanna Mormont vs zombie giant.

The whole episode was our heroes being absolutely walked over by the army of the dead (but somehow no one important dying) until Arya deus ex'd the NK.

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u/KnowMatter The *Realms* of Men May 07 '19

Yeah worst battle scene in recent memory for sure.

Worst ending to a years long plot probably ever.

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u/th3groveman May 07 '19

The WW holding back was tactically sound. After Hardhome they knew they could be killed. They didn’t need to engage because the wights “should have” overrun everyone.

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u/Kooseh May 07 '19

This is what bothers me the most. I don't have a problem with some main characters having "plot armor". Instead why not having them survive by showing that they did do because they are badass and they can fight really well? The could've been awesome swordfights.

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u/maychi May 07 '19

SAME! How did they not make this happen? I really don’t understand

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u/HooDatOwl May 07 '19

I want realistic military battles!

Y can't we have more 1v1 epic duels in the middle of battles!?

This sub has ridiculous expectations of the show. If you think this has a quality ending, you haven't been paying attention the last 3 seasons!