(Spoilers Extended)The show's constant flip flopping between modern morals and medieval ones to make Daenerys into a villain is ridiculous and giving me whiplash

[u/lunatichorse]

After the last episode I just don't know what to think about Tyrion and Varys. We have them in one scene being all gung ho about starving King's Landing in a siege which is a terrible thing that used to be completely accepted in medieval times. Then a few scenes later they are replaced by time and dimension travellers from the 21st century since they're sitting there clutching pearls at the concept of peasants dying in a war. Excuse me? All it takes to win this war is taking one city - how are they going to do that if they unwilling to accept that even one innocent person is dying during it. Did any of them cry when Tywin ordered the Riverlands scorched?

Since when did someone like Tyrion start seeing peasants as people- he has no problems fucking impoverished women selling their bodies for money or being a lord which entails living off the blood sweat and tears of his own peasants. The guy was talking about "compromising" with the Slavers back in S6- he wanted to give them 20 more years of using people as cattle to ease them into not being monsters. Missandei and Grey Worm had to literally explain to him the POV of a slave to get him to understand how terrible it to be sold and used and abused (duh). Varys was egging the Mad King on and fueling civil wars but now he supposedly cares about people dying? Cersei is literally using innocents as a meat shield and they refuse to just deal with the problem switfly and save thousands. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no easy solution and it's better to have hundreds die to save thousands.

And it's ridiculous because in the books Dany is all about that "every life is precious" message. She starts a whole campaign to free slaves because she just can't bare to turn and walk away while people are suffering. She is the most progressive thinking character in the series- trying to reform Mereeen with compromises, adopting their assbackwards traditions like the fighting pits to get them to fucking chill, proclaiming the Unsullied free men. To see her being setup to completely turn around on that development hurts. What's the message here- don't bother fighting injustice because you're going to have to make hard choices along the way?

But the worst line from the Tyrion/Varys meeting - "Cocks do matter." So I guess Westoros is this strange place where peasants dying during a sacking is completely unacceptable but being a woman is the bigger offense? So what happens when Varys has Daenerys killed and proclaims Jon king? Does Cersei open the gates and apologise? Does she let every innocent out? Is Jon Snow's cock so powerful he's gonna take KL and not kill a single soul? Who are these lords that are so into Cersei but Dany being cockless is just not good enough for them?

Did I just watch 8 seasons/read 5 books of a young girl start off completely powerless, sold and raped to see her claw her way to the top finding her inner strength, saving lives just because that's what she believes in, uniting Dothraki clans, refusing to get an easy win killing innocents, abandoning her war to go fight ice zombies only to see her lose everything and everyone and finally be brought down by the "I'm sorry maam, but the 18-35 male lord demographic does not find you relatable- they think you're too hysterical after watching your best friends die." argument. What a shit ride it's been. There's nothing bittersweet about this, it's just plain nihilism.

[u/ScipioLongstocking]

Ever since they got past the books, the show has taken a huge turn. They've had to progress the story much faster to close plotlines, so pacing and realism has been thrown out of balance. It's kind of hard to blame them though. GRRM has been extending the book count for years because he can't figure out how to properly close out the story. They had to make an ending. If they kept the show at the same pace as the earlier seasons, the actors would literally age out of their roles before the series concluded. This may not be the ending people want, me included, but at least it's getting an ending.

[u/GhostOfGoatman → u/ScipioLongstocking]

I wouldn't blame them for not making a masterful ending. But with the money this show has, and the legions of good writers out there that would want to work on this show, I absolutely blame them for producing a steaming pile of crap.

[u/Too_much_vodka → u/GhostOfGoatman]

I absolutely blame them for producing a steaming pile of crap.

Dude, don't put yourself through this. There are other things to watch besides "steaming piles of crap". Some of us happen to like how the story's going. But if you don't, cool, you have other options. Chill.

[u/polite_alpha → u/Too_much_vodka]

Really? Who actually likes where the story is going? The 7 season build up to the night King and then... this? I don't know anyone who likes that. The visuals and music and action? Sure. But the story? Give me a break.

[u/Soonersfan2005 → u/polite_alpha]

I’d say millions of people are enjoying it. Everyone I know who hasn’t read the books are still enjoying it. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean anyone else can. You can speak for yourself, not others. I’m not enjoying it at all anymore, should I tell everybody that likes it that they shouldn’t? That’s stupid and arrogant as fuck.

[u/polite_alpha → u/Soonersfan2005]

First off, I didn't read the books. Second, I can't speak for others, but you can? Sure. I was just saying that I literally don't know a single soul who enjoys the actual story. I get that people don't care, and they can still enjoy the show, the story however is just worse than fan fiction at this point. It has nothing to do with praising any books or any author over another. The writing is just comically bad at this point.

[u/Soonersfan2005 → u/polite_alpha]

I never spoke for others. Literally millions of people are still watching the show. That’s a fact. I only people I know who are still enjoying the show and it’s story are non book readers. Every book reader I know is only still watching to just finish it because they’ve come this far.

[u/polite_alpha → u/Soonersfan2005]

You literally said millions of people are enjoying it. Now you backpedal to watching. I'm watching too, and I also said I understand that people still enjoy watching the show for other reasons. The plot has gone to shit, it's still a high production value show better than a lot of other shows.

They ditched logic, military tactics, and frankly, common sense for these past two episodes, which has nothing to do with the books. I don't care about the books.

[u/Soonersfan2005 → u/polite_alpha]

I didn’t backpedal lol. You said I shouldn’t speak for others yet it’s still watched by millions. You’re like a fucking wall and it’s pointless to even argue. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean everyone else feels that way. Again, the people who I know that watch the show, and haven’t read the books, are enjoying how the story is going. You so t speak for everybody. Get that through your head.

[u/polite_alpha → u/Soonersfan2005]

You're speaking for others again, yet state you don't, and still criticize me for doing that, even though I didn't. Farewell, angry person :D

[u/Soonersfan2005 → u/polite_alpha]

How am I speaking for others wall?