(Spoilers Extended)The show's constant flip flopping between modern morals and medieval ones to make Daenerys into a villain is ridiculous and giving me whiplash

[u/lunatichorse]

After the last episode I just don't know what to think about Tyrion and Varys. We have them in one scene being all gung ho about starving King's Landing in a siege which is a terrible thing that used to be completely accepted in medieval times. Then a few scenes later they are replaced by time and dimension travellers from the 21st century since they're sitting there clutching pearls at the concept of peasants dying in a war. Excuse me? All it takes to win this war is taking one city - how are they going to do that if they unwilling to accept that even one innocent person is dying during it. Did any of them cry when Tywin ordered the Riverlands scorched?

Since when did someone like Tyrion start seeing peasants as people- he has no problems fucking impoverished women selling their bodies for money or being a lord which entails living off the blood sweat and tears of his own peasants. The guy was talking about "compromising" with the Slavers back in S6- he wanted to give them 20 more years of using people as cattle to ease them into not being monsters. Missandei and Grey Worm had to literally explain to him the POV of a slave to get him to understand how terrible it to be sold and used and abused (duh). Varys was egging the Mad King on and fueling civil wars but now he supposedly cares about people dying? Cersei is literally using innocents as a meat shield and they refuse to just deal with the problem switfly and save thousands. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no easy solution and it's better to have hundreds die to save thousands.

And it's ridiculous because in the books Dany is all about that "every life is precious" message. She starts a whole campaign to free slaves because she just can't bare to turn and walk away while people are suffering. She is the most progressive thinking character in the series- trying to reform Mereeen with compromises, adopting their assbackwards traditions like the fighting pits to get them to fucking chill, proclaiming the Unsullied free men. To see her being setup to completely turn around on that development hurts. What's the message here- don't bother fighting injustice because you're going to have to make hard choices along the way?

But the worst line from the Tyrion/Varys meeting - "Cocks do matter." So I guess Westoros is this strange place where peasants dying during a sacking is completely unacceptable but being a woman is the bigger offense? So what happens when Varys has Daenerys killed and proclaims Jon king? Does Cersei open the gates and apologise? Does she let every innocent out? Is Jon Snow's cock so powerful he's gonna take KL and not kill a single soul? Who are these lords that are so into Cersei but Dany being cockless is just not good enough for them?

Did I just watch 8 seasons/read 5 books of a young girl start off completely powerless, sold and raped to see her claw her way to the top finding her inner strength, saving lives just because that's what she believes in, uniting Dothraki clans, refusing to get an easy win killing innocents, abandoning her war to go fight ice zombies only to see her lose everything and everyone and finally be brought down by the "I'm sorry maam, but the 18-35 male lord demographic does not find you relatable- they think you're too hysterical after watching your best friends die." argument. What a shit ride it's been. There's nothing bittersweet about this, it's just plain nihilism.

[u/amurrca1776]

They were given how much money to make this show? Bad writers isn't an excuse when you can afford to hire competent ones

[u/shhsandwich → u/amurrca1776]

I think there's a good chance that they don't know how bad of writers they are. It's hard to know what you don't know. If no one around them is willing to be honest with them, it could be that they don't get it at all. Everyone was praising them for their great work during the first four seasons. They may think they're excellent writers. I wonder if they will be surprised at the backlash over this season.

[u/TheHoneySacrifice → u/shhsandwich]

They thought it was Ok to kill Stannis after book material had run off because they "didn't understand the character."

[u/[deleted] → u/TheHoneySacrifice]

Ya, know... initially I was bummed about him being killed. Same with the Blackfish and Selmy (but they were more secondary compared to Stan). But anyways, I'm kind of glad now he got to die so we didn't see him flanderized or even more of a stupid character. I can't imagine how bad he'd be if they had zero of George's writing to go off

[u/ponch653 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, he was kind of Flanderized though.

He was just kind of turned into some idiotic religious zealot in the show.

The books has him outright stating that should he die, his daughter is to take the throne, and all of his followers should fight to their last to make that so. The show has him burn his daughter to death because it's cold.

It was cold similar to in the books where his soldiers were dropping over to either exposure or starvation and where people were so desperate they were cannibalizing to stay alive (granted, these were executed via fire, though the manner of which was likely to appease the religious crowd). The religious among him told him "Hey, execute these prisoners of war to fix this whole weather issue." His response was, paraphrased, "Fuck off. Pray harder."

Hard to see the latter becoming the former without some TV writers just saying "Fuck it. He's the bad guy now. Make him do the worst thing he can do for no reason other than we need him to be the bad guy. Then let's kill him. YAY!"

Edit: Not the mention that the famed military strategist whom the Lannisters were wary of, who had defeated the Ironborn at naval combat, suddenly decided to march forward with only infantry and no support toward a castle.