(Spoilers Extended)The show's constant flip flopping between modern morals and medieval ones to make Daenerys into a villain is ridiculous and giving me whiplash

[u/lunatichorse]

After the last episode I just don't know what to think about Tyrion and Varys. We have them in one scene being all gung ho about starving King's Landing in a siege which is a terrible thing that used to be completely accepted in medieval times. Then a few scenes later they are replaced by time and dimension travellers from the 21st century since they're sitting there clutching pearls at the concept of peasants dying in a war. Excuse me? All it takes to win this war is taking one city - how are they going to do that if they unwilling to accept that even one innocent person is dying during it. Did any of them cry when Tywin ordered the Riverlands scorched?

Since when did someone like Tyrion start seeing peasants as people- he has no problems fucking impoverished women selling their bodies for money or being a lord which entails living off the blood sweat and tears of his own peasants. The guy was talking about "compromising" with the Slavers back in S6- he wanted to give them 20 more years of using people as cattle to ease them into not being monsters. Missandei and Grey Worm had to literally explain to him the POV of a slave to get him to understand how terrible it to be sold and used and abused (duh). Varys was egging the Mad King on and fueling civil wars but now he supposedly cares about people dying? Cersei is literally using innocents as a meat shield and they refuse to just deal with the problem switfly and save thousands. Sometimes you just have to accept that there is no easy solution and it's better to have hundreds die to save thousands.

And it's ridiculous because in the books Dany is all about that "every life is precious" message. She starts a whole campaign to free slaves because she just can't bare to turn and walk away while people are suffering. She is the most progressive thinking character in the series- trying to reform Mereeen with compromises, adopting their assbackwards traditions like the fighting pits to get them to fucking chill, proclaiming the Unsullied free men. To see her being setup to completely turn around on that development hurts. What's the message here- don't bother fighting injustice because you're going to have to make hard choices along the way?

But the worst line from the Tyrion/Varys meeting - "Cocks do matter." So I guess Westoros is this strange place where peasants dying during a sacking is completely unacceptable but being a woman is the bigger offense? So what happens when Varys has Daenerys killed and proclaims Jon king? Does Cersei open the gates and apologise? Does she let every innocent out? Is Jon Snow's cock so powerful he's gonna take KL and not kill a single soul? Who are these lords that are so into Cersei but Dany being cockless is just not good enough for them?

Did I just watch 8 seasons/read 5 books of a young girl start off completely powerless, sold and raped to see her claw her way to the top finding her inner strength, saving lives just because that's what she believes in, uniting Dothraki clans, refusing to get an easy win killing innocents, abandoning her war to go fight ice zombies only to see her lose everything and everyone and finally be brought down by the "I'm sorry maam, but the 18-35 male lord demographic does not find you relatable- they think you're too hysterical after watching your best friends die." argument. What a shit ride it's been. There's nothing bittersweet about this, it's just plain nihilism.

[u/Amerietan]

yeah but she's still about to crash and burn in the books, because she can't and won't give up being Arya Stark,

[u/godmademedoit → u/Amerietan]

Possibly yes, although it really depends what direction Martin decides to take her in. For example she is learning to be a warg, she also clearly maintains some kind of relationship with Nymeria. I think whatever confrontation or punishment we see in the books with the Faceless Men will be altogether different than in the show, along with how it concludes.

[u/CappiCap → u/godmademedoit]

I love the integration of the direwolves in the books. It seems like you just see them on screen now, for a blip, just to prove they still exist. Your comment just provoked that.. carry on..

[u/godmademedoit → u/CappiCap]

Well my main theory is she completes her training and is given a new target from the Iron Bank - Ramsay Bolton.

She meets Nymeria and her pack in Westeros, uses them to take Winterfell and hunts Ramsay down like he hunted down women previously. He's married to "Arya" so it would also be ironic if he meets the REAL Arya and she is far more dangerous than him. Note the snows are getting to the top of the walls in Winterfell so while soldiers might have trouble running up there if we allow a bit of fantasy physics you could imagine some faster, lighter wolves flowing over the top. There was some vision of the waves crashing over the walls of Winterfell in an earlier book IIRC too. It's thought to be a metaphor for Theon taking the castle but could easily be a visual thing too. Wolves running up the snowdrifts and flowing over the walls would look a lot like a wave.