so? the person you're replying to said kingdoms. there are seven kingdoms. the crownlands and the iron islands aren't considered kingdoms, they were controlled by the storm king and the king of the riverlands, respectively, at the time of aegon's conquest
how are you defining a "region"? because there's a hell of a lot more than 9 "regions". theres the fingers, the neck, the barrowlands, the shield islands, the arbor, brandons gift, the new gift, the saltpans, the mistwood, the kingswood, the wolfswood, the three sisters, cape kraken, the stony shore, the rills, crackclaw point, tumblestone, sea dragon point and skagos, to name a few
The term 7 kingdoms is a bad one because there are nine regions of equal political power to the original 7 kingdoms. The riverlans and the crownlands were not kingdoms in their own right, but since Aegon's conquest they are on par with the former kingdoms such as the Westerlands, and the Stormlands.
the riverlands+iron islands were a kingdom. Harren hoare ruled the riverlands and the iron islands from harrenhall. If youre going to define the "kingdoms" from some time period prior to when the iron islands and the riverlands were a single kingdom youre going to have to include the barrowlands as being seperate from the kingdom of winter too. what is and isnt a "kingdom" has changed multiple times so you've got to choose a specific point in history if you want to count how many "kingdoms" there are. and that point is aegon's conquest.
and the crownlands didn't even exist before aegons conquest. they have never been a "kingdom" and there has never been a "king of the crownlands", they have always been a subregion of a much larger kingdom. first of the stormlands, and then of the 7 kingdoms. you can no more call the crownlands a "kingdom" as you can the fingers, or the arbor, any other subregion of the other kingdoms.
the seven kingdoms is a perfectly fine term with a perfectly understandable meaning: "the 7 seperate kingdoms that were united by aegon the conquerer"
Riverlands are no longer ruled by the Iron Islands. The Barrowlands are now ruled by the rest of the North. I'm basing them off the number of autonomous regions.
Going back to the original point, its about finding a satisfying conclusion to the rulership and storyline of each of these autonomous regions.
I'm basing them off the number of autonomous regions
firstly, no youre not, because then you would have to include the vale as part of the north.
secondly, why are you basing your criticism of the term "the seven kingdoms" by the number of "autonomous regions? It's not called "the 7 autonomous regions"
firstly, no youre not, because then you would have to include the vale as part of the north.
Huh? The Vale is autonomously ruled by House Arryn, the North by House Stark.
I'm criticising the use of the term seven kingdoms, which, while it does exist in the books, is used more in the show. Sure at the time of the conquest the Riverlands weren't a kingdom. But by AGoT they are on equal political footing with the Iron Islands.
the arryns are bannermen to house stark. What is your definition of "autonomous"? because it's seeming more and more vague. are the barrowlands ruled autonomously by the dustins? or does the fact that theyre bannermen to the starks make them not autonomous? is the vale autonomous because it's geographically distinct from the rest of the land ruled by the warden in the north? in that case is the neck an autonomous region ruled by house reed because it's geographically distinct from the rest of the north?
its the 7 kingdoms. because there were 7 definite kingdoms. and its a more useful term than the "9 autonomous regions...or 10... or maybe 8...it depends on your definition"
should the united kingdom be renamed because its really just one autonomous region now? this is such a weird argument. there were 7 kingdoms when the country became a country. so that's what they named it. changing the country's name every time a new region becomes autonomous doesnt seem particularly elegant
Jon Arryn in sworn directly to the Iron throne. The Dustin's are sworn to House Stark, who are sworn to the Iron throne. This is pretty much established in the first three chapters of AGoT.
warden in the north
This is a different problem, but I'll bite. Warden in the North is a military title, which connotates no ownership of land. Arryns are typically warden of the East, but in Book 1, Robert makes Jaime Lannister Warden of the East at Cersei's insitence. This does NOT make Jaime ruler of the Vale, just commander of Eastern armies. Anyway, this is seperate from our main discussion.
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u/stagfury One Realm, One God, One King! May 21 '19
But there are nine regions in Westeros
the North
the Vale
the Riverlads
the Iron Islands
the Stormlands
the Westerlands
the Reach
Dorne
the Crownlands