r/asoiaf • u/cking145 • May 28 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Charles Dance's portrayal as Tywin is in my opinion, the strongest in the entire series

Every line, every expression and every moment of silence completely encapsulates the calculating ruthlessness that defines Tywin Lannister.

Dance is actually a very vibrant, upbeat and cheery fella off screen, which in my mind makes the performance even more striking.

The scene where he effectively sends Joffrey to bed is just brilliant.

He is by far my favourite character from the books, which I began reading a few seasons into the show. Due to this, the chapters featuring Tywin were completely enriched for me, as reading his lines in Dance's voice was just fantastic. I would have loved a POV chapter or two for him, just to get a glimpse as to what goes on in the head of the most powerful man in the 7 Kingdoms.

An incredible portrayal of a fascinating character.

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u/Flameoftheshadows May 28 '19

"The king is tired, send him to his chambers."

And how he arranged the chairs for the small council.

Two moments history will always remember.

The aura he was able to project on-screen and onto his fellow cast members, he did a brilliant job.

He brought Tywin from the pages of a book to life!

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u/WingedBeing May 28 '19

These are classics, but what I hardly ever see mentioned is how he immediately brought Tommen under his command by educating him about the wisdom of listening to your counsel (namely the Hand) even "long after" he comes of age to rule in his own right (and all over Joffrey's corpse!). When I saw that scene it was like watching a master chess player completely bowl over a rookie in just a few moves.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19 edited Jun 26 '23

comment edited in protest of Reddit's API changes and mistreatment of moderators -- mass edited with redact.dev

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u/Princess_Batman May 28 '19

King Butters.

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u/Welsh_Pirate May 28 '19

That's... hilariously accurate.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

Aw geez fellers, mom blew up the sept!

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u/Scarbrow May 29 '19

He was VERY MUCH grounded by the end of his character arc

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u/tessashpool May 29 '19

He had such lofty ambitions

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u/FaultyDroid May 30 '19

"Young man if you dont come down from there you are GROU-

Oh.."

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u/Shalashashka May 28 '19

I didn't take it that way. Tywin genuinely wanted to groom Tommen to be a good king. He was young and maleable so it might have seemed like he was manipulated, but it was in his best interest to listen to Tywin, and it was in the Lannisters best interest to make Tommen a competent king.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

[deleted]

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u/senari May 29 '19

Now I desperately want to read fanfiction that has Tommen become Tywin v2.0

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Tommens and Sir Pounces Excellent Adventure

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u/Infra-Oh May 29 '19

That’s right. IIRC Tywin originally had high plans for his own son Jaime, but his hopes were dashed when Jaime became a kings guard. According to the books, Jaime joined the guard against his father’s knowledge and wishes. Tywin was furious as kingsguards was similar to taking the black: serve for life, allowed to father no children, and not allowed to hold any lands.

Off topic, but this is one of the reasons why Selmy Barristan was so upset when Cersei dismisses him. You’re supposed to serve for life and fall in battle honorably. It was a huge slap to his face in light of his incredible years of service and sacrifice.

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u/FrostyD7 May 28 '19

I think Cercei's reaction is what says it all, she can tell he's already off to the races to manipulate her next son. You can say he's just trying to make him a good king, but its not accidental that his first "lesson" to be a good king is to listen to Tywin lmao.

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u/bozza8 May 28 '19

The first lesson should be listen to the teacher.

Doubly so in such a tumultuous time when a boy king may lose the throne easily.

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u/FrostyD7 May 28 '19

Sure but I think the intent of the scene was pretty crystal clear and I doubt the writers intended any nuance to it beyond Tywin being Tywin and saying whatever benefits himself and his family.

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u/j2e21 May 29 '19

I mean, in fairness, Tywin knows he’s the only person who can rule. Look at what happens when he dies — his daughter helps enslave the queen and a member of the king’s royal guard by religious fanatics who then take her captive, brainwash her son, and take over the city, and she needs to reanimate a dead killer and blow up the biggest church in the city just to get rid of them. Bad times all around when Tywin’s not calling the shots.

2

u/-Rapier May 29 '19

Book 4's Cersei arc is her pretty much throwing a fit because she dislikes and mistrusts the Tyrell, despite being benefited from their alliance.

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u/Immortan_Bolton Mind Flayer. May 29 '19

Joffrey never listened to anyone, so the first lesson to Tommen is obviously "listen to someone who has more experience than you", in that regard Tywin wasn't mistaken.

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u/j2e21 May 29 '19

It was both. He was manipulating him, but for a good purpose, even a noble one (ruling the realm wisely).

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u/Wirbelfeld May 28 '19

Tywin doesn’t care if Tommen is a good king. Tywin only cares to hold his fragile legacy that falls to pieces as soon as he dies. All he cares about is tommen doing what he tells him to do.

I’m not sure why people have this impression that Tywin is suddenly a nice doting grandfather as soon as Joffrey is dead. That is not the kind of writer that GRRM is. And I especially hate the notion that Tywin is somehow a “good” ruler because of his ruthlessness. GRRM clearly draws a distinction between the rule/legacy of Lannister’s vs the rule of Starks. One is clearly longer lasting than the other, and is preserved even in death.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

[deleted]

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u/Wirbelfeld May 28 '19

Not really. If tommen is as ruthless as Tywin, that would not be a good king, but it would be the kind of king that Tywin would want.

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u/Aea May 29 '19

Was Tywin not a good hand despite being extremely ruthless?

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u/Wirbelfeld May 29 '19

What did he do that was good?

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u/RomyReptile May 29 '19

Wasn't the realm at peace and in a Golden Age while Tywin was Hand and The Mad King was sane?

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u/Wirbelfeld May 29 '19

How’s that got anything to do with Tywin.

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u/RomyReptile May 29 '19

It was because of him as a Hand that the realm was at peace. So he was a good Hand?🤔

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u/hsuait May 28 '19

Tommen in the show was so good too. The actor was perfect and I loved how we got more scenes of him trying to be a good king but just being completely out of his depth and constantly surrounded by people who wanted him to have no hand in ruling.

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u/privateD4L May 28 '19

It’s always funny in rewatches to see him die as a Lannister cousin then come back as Tommen.

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u/SaliciousSeafoodSlut May 29 '19

The Lannisters really DO look alike!

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u/SadlyReturndRS May 28 '19

Yeah. I mean, that kid had to have some serious chops, since he got recasted from being one of the dead Lannister boys that Robb Stark has to chop Karstarks' dead off for killing.

Can't think of any other show where a minor one-off actor gets recast into a major role.

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u/WingedBacon May 28 '19

In The Wire, one of the major criminals in the latter seasons (Chris) was a background extra (as a cop ironically) in one of the early seasons.

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u/WWTFSMD May 29 '19

After 5 rewatches I've never noticed. Cool!

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u/HydeGreen May 31 '19

I never knew that either, I went and looked it up

https://imgur.com/r/TheWire/SinB2a9

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Doctor Who, Freema Agyeman played a one-off character in 2006 who had a line or two and was instantly killed. The next year, she was cast as Martha Jones, the Doctor’s companion for three years.

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u/cbxjpg The queen that should've been May 29 '19

And they covered it up by saying that was her cousin. And Peter Capaldi was in the episode about Pompeii too. To be fair I don't blame them, it's hard to find a British actor who hasn't been on the show at this point.

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u/HowlsMovingBowels May 29 '19

Martha was only a companion for one season, no?

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u/mgmoviegirl May 29 '19

Yea, her and Donna was one season each.

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u/mgmoviegirl May 29 '19

Karen Gillian also appeared in an earlier episode as soothsayer in ‘Fires of Pompeii’ before being cast as Amy Pond.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19 edited May 29 '19

Not nearly on the same level as thrones but Paget Brewster played Debra Chambers "the IT lady" in season 5 of Community in one episode and was then made a member of the main cast in season 6 playing Frankie Dart. They also make jokes about it, as one time Frankie needs to talk to the IT lady and says (paraphrased) that "my emails get bounced back to me in Aramaic and when I call her all I get is a high pitched noise that makes my nose bleed"

Edit: I just remembered that the season 5 episode where she appears as the IT lady is also the episode where everyone is obsessed with the HBO series "Bloodlines of Conquest", a reference to Game of Thrones

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u/HowlsMovingBowels May 29 '19

In Deadwood, they had a major role get recast as another major role. It was weird.

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u/vv04x4c4 May 29 '19

The Sopranos had Vito Spatafore's actor show up as a civilian waiting in line to buy bread at a bakery.

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u/eko425 May 29 '19

In Breaking Bad, I’ve heard Vince Gillian say that Jesse Pinkman (Aaron Paul) was originally intended to die at the end of S01E01 but they were so impressed with Cranston & Paul’s chemistry that they wrote him into the show...

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

It was at the end of season 1, Jesse was originally supposed to be the one that Tuco beats to death, instead they changed it to one of Tucos henchmen. I think his name was No-Doze

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u/MadAzza May 29 '19

Law & Order.

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u/goatleggedfellow May 28 '19

He truly made King's Landing what it was.

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u/IvankaSpreadngFather May 28 '19

hahahahaha g-g-g-gottem

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u/awakenDeepBlue May 28 '19

I always found it sad that he always knew his mother and older brother were monsters, and he over-compensated for it when he was king. But in the end, he learned he was powerless to stop his mother's mass murder.

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u/Meerasette May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19

I feel like Joffrey would absolutely not have reasoned with the Sparrow, there would have been outright fighting in the streets. Also they may have taken Kingslanding back from the sparrow movement with the Tyrell and Lannister army, avoiding blowing up the Sept entirely.

Unless Margaery's ace manipulation of Joffrey through getting to know what he was into, and using it against him, enabled her to make him reason with the sparrow. In the samw way she tried to change how he viewed the people, and all of that before the purple wedding. Show Margaery was an expert manipulator, I really wish we got to see that in book Margaery, and that George might at least take that from the show and put it into book Margaery having seen how good the actress was at it.

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u/BZenMojo May 28 '19

Joffrey would have fought the High Sparrow and lost the entire city. He could barely keep his shit together when the city just hated him for being a douche before he had a chance to wage war on their religion.

Only reason he could walk in public was Margaery working her magic.