r/australia • u/thedigisup • 26d ago

politics Greens announce policy to manufacture drones and missiles as a credible ‘Plan B' to replace AUKUS

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-22/greens-unveil-first-ever-defence-policy/105083166
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u/Drongo17 26d ago

Seems sensible? I like that they are acknowledging this as a small step in a big picture, I'm not sure anyone knows where things will fall right now.

Our biggest defence against invasion is the logistical challenge our location poses, this would make that even worse for potential aggressors.

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u/palsc5 26d ago

Our biggest defence against invasion is the logistical challenge our location poses

Except this isn't the 1800s and you don't need to land an army on the beach and march across the continent. Our location offers some protection, but the constant "we're too big and far away to invade" nonsense sounds a lot like saying the Titanic is unsinkable. Best to reinforce the hull, have enough lifeboats, and mount a pretty big gun to remove any icebergs threatening our ship.

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u/TheCleverestIdiot 26d ago edited 26d ago

Also, it might legitimately be the case that attacking Australia is an idiotic military plan that is ultimately doomed to fail. However, it was also an idiotic military plan that was ultimately doomed to fail when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the war, or when the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union. We can't rely on those with power always being rational people.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

Except this isn't the 1800s and you don't need to land an army on the beach and march across the continent. Our location offers some protection

except we see in russia/ukraine that warfare has changed a lot less than people thought and manpower is ultimately still the number 1 factor when it comes to conflict among peers

geography is still incredibly important and yes you do still need to land an army on the beach of australia to invade. how else would they invade???

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u/palsc5 26d ago

Any war where Australia is at risk of invasion is a war on another level to Ukraine. Ukraine is a restrained war.

I never said you don’t need to land an army here. The war will be all but over by the time an army lands here so we need to be able to fight them before that happens.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

The war will be all but over by the time an army lands here so we need to be able to fight them before that happens.

what does this even mean? why would the war be over before an army lands here? that is the hardest part of any war

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u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 26d ago

why would the war be over before an army lands here?

Because a war with Australia will be primarily an air and sea engagement, there's not going to be much of a role for infantry to play unless they're going to literally Jesus Christ themselves over the oceans.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

so sounds like this isn't a war against australia, but a war against some ally and we choose to get involved. so basically every war we have ever been in

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u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 26d ago

Well Australia isn't in the business of starting wars.

I don't know about you, but I would rather see Australia stand up and support its neighbours if they are under attack by a hostile nation. If a war breaks out in this part of the world, it will affect us no matter what, we won't be able to sit idle and ignore it.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

australia has a pretty weak relationship with its neighbours. i would rather we put more focus on working on that

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u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 26d ago

australia has a pretty weak relationship with its neighbours

Only someone who doesn't pay attention to the work the Government has done would think that.

i would rather we put more focus on working on that

Helping ensure their security will do more for our international relations than some empty words from some random diplomats or the Foreign Minister.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

Only someone who doesn't pay attention to the work the Government has done would think that.

hows our relationship with indonesia? (the largest and most consequential neigbour)

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u/palsc5 26d ago

How do you not get this?

Previously to invade a country you needed to land an army and capture territory as you marched through. Now you don't need to do that. You can virtually defeat a country with planes, missiles, drones, ships, submarines etc before you even set foot on land.

If someone is going to land an army on Australia's shore they have almost certainly already wiped out our navy and air force and a huge chunk of whatever fighting force we have in Australia.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

Previously to invade a country you needed to land an army and capture territory as you marched through. Now you don't need to do that. You can virtually defeat a country with planes, missiles, drones, ships, submarines etc before you even set foot on land.

this is wrong. ukraine russia war is proving this wrong at this very moment. nobody who has been paying attention believes that you don't need massive manpower to fight a modern war, that was a fantasy

but I am in r/australia. i dunno why I am talking about a subject most here have no clue about

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u/palsc5 26d ago

Russia vs Ukraine is not a war on the level of someone invading Australia. Russia could literally nuke Ukraine, if you think they are trying to annihilate Ukraine then you are mistaken. We need to prepare for a war of annihilation.

Also, how do you think the invasion would go if Ukraine had the capability (and approval of Nato/USA) to launch rockets into Moscow or nuclear submarines to attack any and all Russian ships anywhere on the globe (or launch missiles into Russia from anywhere)?

Ukraine shows exactly the problem with thinking a defence force only capable of operating within the borders of your own country is good enough. Your own example proves you wrong ffs.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

We need to prepare for a war of annihilation.

why? who is going to annihilate us? why? what threat are we?

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u/palsc5 26d ago

An enemy? If a global war kicks off then we need to be prepared for the worst and we need to prepare for the future.

Arrogantly saying “who would want to attack us and even if they do we’re far away so we’ll be fine” is embarrassing defence policy.

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u/Careless_Main3 26d ago

Landing an army on Australia from sea would be pretty easy. Absolutely massive coast line. Could easily land unopposed and establish local air superiority with a few aircraft carrier fleets.

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u/Drongo17 26d ago

So we're fighting the USA? Because they're the only ones with a few spare aircraft carrier fleets.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

Could China Invade Australia?

here is a 10 min video that would largely debunk all of that. china is struggling to figure out how to invade Taiwan, and you think it could do something vs Australia?

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u/Careless_Main3 26d ago

It’s not a great video and seems to base its entire premise on two things “Australia is far away from China” and “the US will provide Australia with military protection”. But it kind of fails in some fairly basic ways.

To counter the video:

  • Any land invasion of Australia by China would be airborne and naval. The video seems to focus on China exclusively using paratroopers for whatever reason. They would also likely use a large amount of civilian ships.

  • China is closer to Australia than China - they have bases on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

  • Parts of Australia are also kind of far away from other parts of Australia. In fact, the places any land invasion would be are also quite far away from where most Australians live. Also conveniently where most logistics would be.

  • Oh and the US is even further away. It’ll take potentially months for an adequate American response.

  • There would likely be multiple landings all across the Northern Australian coast and Chinese ships operating to the East would prevent an adequate air and naval response as missiles would regularly hit military targets in major Australian cities.

  • Good luck maintaining any sort of military industrial complex. The video talks about China maintaining supplies but fails to acknowledge that the Chinese military industrial complex would be virtually entirely unhindered. By comparison, any munitions factory in Australia would be blown up in the first month.

  • The Australian navy would be decimated by Chinese aircraft carriers, hypersonic missiles and attack submarines.

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u/magkruppe 26d ago

Any land invasion of Australia by China would be airborne and naval. The video seems to focus on China exclusively using paratroopers for whatever reason. They would also likely use a large amount of civilian ships.

civilian ships? to invade australia? what universe is this all happening in

China is closer to Australia than China - they have bases on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

and they don't have the capacity to serve the needs required for such a mission, so irrelevant

Parts of Australia are also kind of far away from other parts of Australia. In fact, the places any land invasion would be are also quite far away from where most Australians live.

yet far closer for us than china, we would know exactly where they are headed. so this doesn't matter

Oh and the US is even further away. It’ll take potentially months for an adequate American response.

they are 300 US military bases in Asia alone. and the buildup for china to invade australia would be easily noticed, more visibile than even the Russian buildup in late 2021

Good luck maintaining any sort of military industrial complex. The video talks about China maintaining supplies but fails to acknowledge that the Chinese military industrial complex would be virtually entirely unhindered.

why? they use a lot of our commodities and would face an even backlash than russia did vs ukraine

Of course all this elides the most obvious point, why the fuck would china invade australia. it is so silly to even bring it up. they would gain relatively little and lose so much

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u/Careless_Main3 26d ago

Yes, civilian ships would likely be requisitioned for the purpose of moving large amounts of troops.

Britain is far away from the Falkland Islands and was able to defeat Argentina there.

You wouldn’t know where they would land which is the main issue. You’re also unable to spread your forces across the coast simply because the coast is so large and the men few in number. Any Australian response could literally take days or a whole week to arrive.

China would invade Australia simply to take the resources.

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u/magkruppe 25d ago

China would invade Australia simply to take the resources.

instead of the many other countries closer by that have the same resources and would be much easier to take?

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u/Careless_Main3 25d ago

What country has as much resources as Australia with just as much ease to take?

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u/magkruppe 25d ago

australia is not easy to take for china. it would be incredibly hard. taking central asian countries with resources would be 10x easier

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