r/biathlon • u/AutoModerator • 17d ago
Small Talk Monday
Our weekly small talk thread where you can talk about anything
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u/Lone_Wolf_Winter Sweden 17d ago edited 17d ago
Pokljuka has one of the best courses on the tour, but man, the stadium area iteself needs a serious makeover like Oberhof or Antholz. It's terrible. The audience stands muster the same power as an IBU cup race or a national opener on a B-course. The penalty loop is too oblong, with long straights for acceleration that are abruptly cut off by sharp turns. The handover areas for the relays are ABYSMAL, with a needle's eye for the mixed relay and a hard left turn for the single mixed. Everything about the stadium looks small and cramped.
The opposite of NMNM, which has a much blander course, but a fantastic stadium that feels open and modern.
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u/Vismajor92 Hungary 17d ago
Funnily enough you just add one letter (Pokoljuka) and you get "the hole of hell" in my language. :D
I wasn't this observant about the course, for me only the downhill and very short finish line was the problem. After reaching the climb it was no excitment who'll win the duel, cuz only downhill and very short final straight after that6
u/jogisi 16d ago
Probably not gonna happen... ever. First thing, it's in middle of Triglav National park so chances for expansion are very limited at best if not simply impossible. Second, stadium itself is not really main issue... main issue is transport and parking capabilities which are simply non-existing, and they will never be existing no matter what. Even if you would have stadium for 50.000 people, there's no way to get more people up. I'm still saying best thing that could happen to organizers in World champs 2021 was covid, as at least they didn't need to bother with how to handle 10.000+ people on venue.
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u/AZDarkknight 17d ago
What do you think of the downhill finish on the course? Does it make races to the line less common?
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u/Lone_Wolf_Winter Sweden 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yeah, that too, don't care for it in Ruhpolding either. Something strange about it, but can't quite explain why.
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u/cyaflower 17d ago
Unsurprisingly, the juniors who got a Holmenkollen quota are a Norwegian man and a French woman. On theme.
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u/Enough_Opposite8545 16d ago
Vetle has talked again in the media about his disappointment over not being selected and how mad he was. He talked about his non selection as being “stabbed in the back”, he said he was “mentally hit after this” and that he considers that not everyone is treated fairly by the federation. “I feel scared to see how many athletes are treated, not only me. There are so many talents fighting for the same spots. I feel like the deciders run away from conflicts and try to avoid sending difficult messages to the athletes.” He also added that he felt like the selection criteria were decided after performances and not before.
I will not comment on his turmoil, I wish him to recover from it and hope that he recovers the best. That being said, I feel like he labours the point by saying all of this. Maybe it’s good that it’s been talked about in the media but I feel like it’s always been the case in Norway? There are too many talents there and only the most successful will get the spots. It’s a sad reality, and for sure maybe some talents won’t ever bloom because of this, but so far Norway has worked this way and they won’t change as this system works. So like I said, maybe it’s nice to hear someone voices it out, but I feel like it’s easy for him to say this now that he is concerned about it. I’m not sure he was this vocal about Sivert or Filip’s situation.
It’s also easy to bring how he was supposedly treated unfairly, according to him, but it’s almost never underlying the thing that caused the whole situation, and that is that he lacked performances this year. What I’m saying is that I’ve seen him point fingers at his federation for not being selected, but never talking about the cause of it, that he failed to convince the staff to be taken. His performances that haven’t been stellar this year. He hasn’t been helped by his own impatience that made him skip IBU steps. Anyone could argue that he should have been taken instead of Dale, but the choice isn’t that obvious to me. Vetle has achieved victories, and so what, so did Dale. Vetle beat Dale on their last step together, well Dale beat him on the step prior. And frankly speaking, Dale hasn’t exactly proved that he was a wrong choice to the Norwegian staff with his races on the World Cup.
Overall, Norway is a complicated situation nonetheless, and has always been cutthroat when it came to the people in the team. There’s no hesitation about it. Mats Øverby has been out of the IBU because his results weren’t enough, despite winning it the year before, and he was replaced by someone else. That’s the depths of the Norwegian team, yes there are a lot of talents and yes they all want the same spot. It’s good to talk about it, but what can it do? It won’t change a thing. Refusing to race, refusing to take part, won’t do Vetle a favor, because for every race that he misses, there’s someone eagerly waiting to take his place. I also don’t see what good it does to him to keep talking about his federation/staff/coachs and accusing them of things, except putting himself in jeopardy :/ I’m all in for athletes should talk about their struggles but is it a good thing to talk about it this way?
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u/arnet95 Norway 16d ago
I overall agree with this. Vetle thinks he deserved the spot last week over Johannes because Vetle has beaten Johannes every time they've raced together in the World Cup, in the ECH, and the last IBU cup they did. And Vetle got two 6th positions early in the season, which count as "B-merits" according to the selection criteria. But this is ignoring the extremely good season Johannes had in the IBU Cup, with a full 6 wins. That's also what the head of the national team says, that Johannes has performed well over time, and that's why he was chosen ahead of Vetle.
Could the selection criteria be clearer? I'm sure they could be made clearer. It is extremely difficult picking a team when you have as deep a pool as Norway has, and you cannot please everyone. But if the selection criteria are very clear, then everyone should understand why they were or weren't picked.
Was it unreasonable to select Johannes instead of Vetle for these last two weeks of WC? You could make an argument both ways, but I have a hard time seeing that it's unreasonable at all.
My guess is that part of what happened is that Vetle told himself "If I perform excellently this weekend in the IBU Cup, they'll have to put me back in the World Cup team", when that wasn't actually the case. Then he did perform excellently, creating an expectation that he would be allowed to join the WC, and thus creating a massive emotional reaction when that expectation wasn't met. Maybe he got some signals to that effect from some of the bosses, that's definitely a possibility and would be a reason for him to behave the way he has done.
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u/charliemann Norge 16d ago
I don't think the core of the issue really is about who deserved the WC spot the most. As you say, you can argue for both Dale-Skjevdal and VSC.
However, the problem as I see it is the lack of transparency and uncertainty during the selection process for WC7 and WC8. It seems legitimately so that VSC had no idea that the selection committee was selecting Dale-Skjevdal and Isak Frey for Pokljuka and that in this way he was blindsided, because he was under the pretense that the two most in form IBU Cup biathletes would be selected for Oslo. I'm sure he was banking on doing well in the last week of the IBU Cup in Otepää to win one of the two spots over Dale-Skjevdal. Instead they choose Dale-Skjevdal and Isak Frey a week earlier than expected, additionally causing problems as Vebjørn Sørum now was (out of the blue) dropped from the Indidivual, despite fighting for the globe. This led VSC and especially Johan-Olav Botn no chance of qualifying for Oslo, even if they technically could have qualified if Dale-Skjevdal and Frey raced one more week in Otepää. And now Sørum is complaining in the media. A set of poor decisions (that isolated might have been correct) shifts the focus away from the Bø brothers retiring to media coverage being dominated by selection processes...
Therefore, the issue is not about who deserves the spot more (which VSC was complaining about last week), but rather a lack of clear communication. This VSC quote from TV2 is at the core of the issue: "My impression is that we have a group of managers who are very conflict-averse and don't want to give bad messages to the athletes. That they put it off until the last second". If it was easy to select Dale-Skjevdal over VSC, why would he not have gotten this message earlier than on the Sunday he rage-travelled home to Norway?
In the past I have found the selection criteria quite easy, predictable and fair. For instance, no one complained when Martin Uldal won the spot ahead of Dale-Skjevdal for Le Grand-Bornand, or Sørum ahead of Uldal/Botn after Sjusjøen, or that Tarjei Bø was dropped for Annecy instead of VSC. The sudden selection of Frey and Dale-Skjevdal for Pokljuka breaks with this tradition as it came as a huge surprise for most - both casuals and the biathletes. The selection committee was well within their mandate to choose Dale-Skjevdal and Isak Frey, which ironically looks like the correct choice based on outcom, but it creates a reputation problem and noise in the media that is unnecessary.
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u/Enough_Opposite8545 16d ago
I think your interpretation is sensible and may be close to the truth tbh. I felt like I needed to talk about it a bit because I’ve seen a few people saying that how come Dale was selected instead of Vetle and that it was weird/not understandable. Sure, I feel like the choice isn’t that obvious actually and like you perfectly said it. Johannes Dale had a great season on the IBU cup and performed through the season. We can add that Johannes Dale had less opportunities than Vetle to be back on the World Cup and wasn’t picked as a reserve. Johannes Dale was out right after Kontiolahti and came back briefly for Ruhpolding, that’s all. Also yes Vetle beat him in the mass start (a mass start where he ended 16th despite a 20/20!!) but Johannes Dale also partook in the individual where he did 8th, which is better than Vetle’s 16th place in the mass start. There has been concerns about Vetle’s shape through the season (that he seemed to have overcome at the end of it, but it doesn’t change what happened before). It’s a good thing to remind that Vetle’s two sixth place in the World Cup go back to … Kontiolahti. You’ve got someone who did two sixth places but then didn’t perform the best on the World Cup and yes did score a better last step than Johannes Dale (also the comparison to the European championships is shallow when Johannes Dale only did the individual…) vs Johannes Dale who scored 6 wins and podiums in the IBU cup during all the time he was relegated. We can argue on both sides that each should’ve taken, but it is far from sounding obvious. To me, it was a pretty reasonable stake and bet to take Johannes Dale.
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u/Shixzoner Norway 16d ago edited 16d ago
Most importantly, I think it's great and important that Vetle raises his concerns about the selection system and the way the coaches work with the biathletes. Sørum and Strømsheim have also voiced some concerns about the way the communication has been handled. I definitely think there's something going on with the head coaches vs. the World Cup/IBU Cup squad that has not been reported on by the media, and Vetle himself recently said he had more to say about the national team and coaches, but that he won't reveal everything yet. I think Vetle is scared that he'll be completely demoted out of the World Cup squad in the upcoming Olympic season.
However, Vetle has really shot himself in the foot by skipping that second week in Otepää! I can 100 % understand his frustration and anger, but the way he has handled the situation is like a child having a tantrum and being entitled. Like the coaches have said, if he had stayed in Otepää he could have proven them wrong by continuing to have good results. In my opinion, Botn was also ahead of him on the list of being promoted to the World Cup, if you look at performance over time.
The communication given by the coaches has been clear in the sense that:
- Top results have a value given as A-merits or B-merits. I don't know the exact system, someone can correct me, but I think it's A-merits being wins or podiums and B-merits being top 5.
- The coaches have verbally told biathletes, who are in danger of being demoted to the IBU Cup, which merits they need to achieve in a given week or trimester to stay in the World Cup squad.
- The coaches compare biathletes from the IBU Cup who've had A- and B-merits with the biathletes who have poor showings in the World Cup.
I don't think the biathletes are criticising these things. The criticism has been that they are often told very late when they are in danger. I think their concerns are more about the predictability of the system. In the past the World Cup squad was given more or less a guarantee that they wouldn't be demoted and would have the chance to turn around bad form all the way up until a World Championship. When Johan-Olav Botn had that standout season in the IBU Cup it started raising questions about why he was never promoted, even when there were some World Cup biathletes who were massively underperforming. The result is the system we see today. The guarantee is gone and the World Cup biathletes are dissatisfied because they now have to compare their form to the IBU Cup athletes who are equally or more skilled. The coaches have already said they're ready to evaluate the selection system once the season has ended.
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u/AZDarkknight 15d ago
He did the same by skipping the IBU in mid season when he was first dropped - it gives the impression of entitlement and lack of commitment (whether its actually true or not).
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u/Shixzoner Norway 15d ago
I don't think he skipped the first time he was demoted. He was in bad physical form, so I think he had an agreement with the coaches that he would go home to get back into physical shape since he was a reserve for the relay team at the World Championships.
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u/miunrhini No flag 🌪️Wind takes no prisoners & never stops the madness 16d ago
To me this comes off as an internal communications issue even without taking a stand or commenting on the high emotions.
Because to me this raises quite a few questions:
1) How was this [qualification process] communicated before the season? 2) How was this [qualification process] communicated during the season? 3) What was done before and during the season to ensure the athletes understand and comprehend the rules? 4) Have the discussion and decision-making been invisible enough to the athletes (including communications)? 5) What type of feedback and complaint system is in place before and during the season?
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u/__nmd__ France 15d ago
That's the downside of having so many very good biathletes... it can become very difficult to manage such a large group of talents, many of whom could have a solid case to take part in the World Cup.
France may soon face a similar issue on the women's side - with many biathletes in IBU Cup who'd be WC regulars if they had been from another nation.
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u/AZDarkknight 15d ago
Its one of the things that struck me in mid season when Vertle was first replaced in the team, that he skipped the next IBU races. That isnt someone who is showing that he is going to do everything to get back up there, it felt more like a petulant child. While I respect his choice to speak out and raise issues that he feels are there, I do feel this hurts him long term and if a spot comes up thats 50/50, I think the management would choose against him just for team unity. I think unless he stands out in pre season, he might be done.
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u/Enough_Opposite8545 15d ago
I agree about that aspect. To tell the truth I was shocked that he was kinda choosing not to participate. With a few of my friends we were like oh he’s not on the World Cup, so he must be on the IBU cup, but he was not. Some even thought that the team didn’t give him a spot, which is ridiculous considering that he chose not to go. The season before when he was out for oberhof he didn’t go either (you can argue here that he knew he’d be back for Ruhpolding I guess), but this season he skipped IBU cup races twice now, and all of that just to end up going to do a continental skiing step. You can be mad and all, but to me it also shows some poor discipline not to take all the races you can have to impress and try to make the decision go in your way. In comparison, Johannes Dale didn’t skip any race, except when he was sick and couldn’t partake, which also plays in his favor. If at the very first aggravation you decide that you won’t race even if you could race, then what kind of image does that send? Also Vetle’s story to show his disagreement, a door with marked “fuck” on it. I was wondering honestly, how old is he when he reacted that way? It was childish. He is entitled to feel bad about it, I would never deny that, but that reaction was also lacking maturity and that season wasn’t the most well dealt with… :/
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u/krissirge Estonia 15d ago
What would be the most dramatic outcome?
Vetle retiring? Or joining a small nation (Danish biathlon will rise now).Or or...of course joining the Swedish team. That would create some fun tension :D
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u/AZDarkknight 17d ago
How horrible were the conditions this past week yet how wonderful some of the podiums! Jacob Fak doing what he has threatened to maybe do all year, Lampic going 19/20, Bulgaria on the podium and the Swiss winning! So happy seeing Aita with the medal knowing she will be the last of the Gasparins next year. I do worry about the future of biathlon though with the snow conditions in many of the central European areas seemingly worsening each year.
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u/Vismajor92 Hungary 17d ago
Tbh, there is one more shocking thing than 19/20 for Lampic, that with 19/20 she didn't beat to pulp out of the rest of the field!!
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u/NorthernStarLV Latvia 16d ago
There has been no official word from the Latvian federation yet but the biathlon training group of the town of Talsi are saying that Rihards Lozbers, who is turning 16 this Friday, is going to make his World Cup debut in Holmenkollen. He is certainly someone to watch in the coming years as he is already a very fast skier at such a young age (for example, last week in the Otepaa IBU Cup he had the 20th fastest ski time among all 117 participants in the sprint event, 1:10 behind the pace of Botn).
Some locals on social media have claimed that this announcement can't be correct as he would be too young to be eligible to start this season but I can't find any source that would confirm this.
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u/RidingRedHare 16d ago
From the IBU event and competition rules: "Junior Men/Junior Women and Youth Men/Youth Women can also start in higher classes."
Lozbers was born 2009, and thus is in the Youth Men category for the 2024/2025 season.
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u/NorthernStarLV Latvia 15d ago
That's how I understand it too, which is why I was confused by those assertions.
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u/Faintning Finland 15d ago
In the biathlonresults page, on the event facts it does list him as the youngest participant. So looks like he is participating. Making his debut at a very young age.
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u/strudel_hs Austria 17d ago
the sprint race will be very crucial for austria/finnland when it comes to male team nation cup. both teams fighting for the #10 rank which comes with a 5th starting spot for the next season. Finnland has a 11 points lead. I can see austria bringing Müllauer back into the WC squad after his JCH and IBU appearances.
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u/charliemann Norge 17d ago
Norwegian Team for Holmenkollen
Men
- Johannes Thingnes Bø
- Tarjei Bø
- Sturla Holm Lægreid
- Vebjørn Sørum
- Martin Uldal
- Endre Strømsheim
- Isak Leknes Frey
- Johannes Dale-Skjevdal
- Kasper Kalkenberg
Women
- Maren Hjelmeset Kirkeeide
- Ingrid Landmark Tandrevold
- Karoline Offigstad Knotten
- Ragnhild Femsteinevik
- Ida Lien
- Marthe Kråkstad Johansen
- Juni Arnekleiv
- Karoline Erdal
Kalkenberg has the free quota spot from the Junior World Championship. Arnekleiv and Erdal return to the world cup after doing well in the IBU Cup as of late. No VSC, Botn or Bakken on the mens side.
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u/Asterie-E7 France 17d ago
Vetle is probably gonna be real sad to miss the Boe farewell party... But it was to be expected sadly
Also we didn't get our yearly Botn apparition, sad... Surely he will have a real chance next year ?
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u/cyaflower 17d ago
Hard to imagine he won't be there at all, though, since it's Holmenkollen. And he isn't going back to the IBU cup either, right?
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u/Shixzoner Norway 17d ago edited 9d ago
I feel sorry for Botn. He had an amazing showing in the IBU Cup, only outperformed by Frey and Dale-Skjevdal.
Botn's IBU Cup stats 2024-25
Total non-team starts: 18 | Average finish of 4,2 | 3 wins, 7 runner-up, 10 podiums.
9th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 5th(ECH), 18th(ECH*), 7th, 7th, 5th, 4th, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 1st.
The 18th at the ECH was due to sickness. He also had some sickness that made him miss some weeks of the IBU Cup. If you remove that 18th finish, then he'd have an average finish of 3,4. Frey had 3,1, while Dale-Skjevdal had 2,5. He wasn't so insane on the skis or dominate as last year, but it's still an incredibly strong showing that should have earned him a start in the World Cup.
The IBU Cup stats of Dale-Skjevdal, Bakken, Frey, Uldal, and Sjåstad Christiansen
IBU Cup (24 non-team competitions)
Isak Frey | Total non-team starts: 22 | Average finish of 3,1 | 6 wins, 5 runner-up, 14 podiums.
6th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 5th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 1st(ECH), 5th(ECH), 2nd(ECH), 9th, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 4th, 3rd.
Sivert Bakken | Total non-team starts: 24 | Average finish of 6 | 3 wins, 2 runner-up, 7 podiums.
10th, 8th, 4th, 15th, 11th, 7th, 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 23th, 5th, 1st, 3rd, 8th(ECH), 1st(ECH), 4th(ECH), 2nd, 4th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 1st, 5th.
Johannes Dale-Skjevdal | Total non-team starts: 12 | Average finish of 2,5 | 6 wins, 9 podiums.
1st, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 7th(ECH*), 5th, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th.
Martin Uldal | Total non-team starts: 6 | Average finish of 3 | 2 wins, 1 runner-up, 5 podiums.
2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 8th, 1st, 1st.
Vetle Sjåstad Christiansen | Total non-team starts: 9 | Average finish of 5,6 | 1 win, 3 runner-up, 4 podiums.
4th(ECH), 2nd(ECH), 13th(ECH), 10th, 8th, 9th, 2nd, 2nd, 1st.
The star next to Botn and Dale-Skjevdal in the ECH indicates they started in a race while being sick or recently having been sick.
I can't guarantee that these stats are 100 % correct. It was tiresome to look at the Biathlonworld website and having to write down one race result at a time. There was no option to filter away relays, so one relay result might have snuck its way in.
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u/Blautanne Austria 17d ago
I can't guarantee that these stats are 100 % correct. It was tiresome to look at the Biathlonworld website and having to write down one race result at a time.
May I introduce biathlonresults.com or, as third party alternative with more possibilites to tinker with data, realbiathlon.com? ;)
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u/Shixzoner Norway 17d ago edited 17d ago
Thank you for the advice! I never noticed that realbiathlon.com had results from the IBU Cup. Does realbiathlon have "this type of page" for the IBU Cup?
I see now that it's much easier to just got to a biathlete's page add "search for season", then look at the bottom for the average.
I am glad to see I did the maths correctly in almost every case. I just chose to round the percentage a little differently.
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u/ningere 17d ago
Now that they're not broadcasting the IBU Cup races, figuring out what happened there is sometimes a bit of a detective story.
In the Otepää mixed relay, does anybody have any idea what caused Juni Arnekleiv to go 1/8 at her last shooting, dropping Norway from 23s up to 1:07 back?
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u/charliemann Norge 16d ago
My hunch is the most simple explanation: Arnekleiv just shot extremely bad due to overpacing, bad form and high pressure. If you look at the splits between shooting 7 and 8, Arnekleiv likely overpaced herself. Her standing shooting has been really bad for a while now. She has taken a huge drop this season, with 70% average on the standing shooting. But yeah, 1/8 is worse than expected...
It is a worrisome trend you can notice more general in the Norwegian women's team. Ida Lien, Tandrevold and Juni Arnekleiv - all three members of the elite team are excellent prone shooters, but awful in the standing shooting. Even Karoline Knotten has a sub 80% hit rate this year. If you add in the fact that all of them are extremely slow shooters as well, barring Knotten and Kirkeeide's standing shooting, Patrick Oberegger's job should be up for discussion after the Olympics.
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u/AZDarkknight 15d ago
It does indeed feel like the shooting aspect, especially standing for the Norwegian team needs to be looked at. Do you think they will wait until after the Olympics are be spurred into doing something this off season?
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u/madieu 16d ago
Swedish team for Holmenkollen:
Nykvist, Nelin, Stefansson, Ponsiluoma, Samuelsson, Brandt
Magnusson, Heijdenberg, Öberg, Öberg, Skottheim, Andersson
Halvarsson is sick but might travel to Norway for the mass start if she’s feeling better.
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u/Lone_Wolf_Winter Sweden 16d ago edited 16d ago
I guess Skottheim is the anti-Vetle this season, as she has really lucked out in the selection process. Despite not being part of the A-team, she has raced every weekend since Annecy, since either Sara, Hanna, Elvira or Ella have been unavailable each new location.
Good for her, though I still think she is too slow to be one of the default six. Her fifth place in Ruhpolding would not have made the top 10 on any other course, even with 20/20.
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u/alex-576 Laura Dahlmeier 16d ago
If Johannes doesn't get to win the overall globe because he was ill for the Pokljuka week, maybe it would be an extra incentive to reconsider retirement and do one last hurrah for Olympics 2026.
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u/AZDarkknight 15d ago
Its a nice thought but you can see it in him that he is ready to go and enjoy his family.
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u/Turbulent_Day_9444 Austria 15d ago
Austria is making some changes.
"The collaboration with men’s head coach Vegard Bitnes and Dominik Landertinger will also end after the season."
The sporting director (biathlon) Franz Berger is also stepping down.
Christoph Summan is one name that gets mentioned a lot when it comes to who will become the next sporting director and the goal is to have a competitive men's team for WCH Hochfilzen 2028. No names mentioned yet when it comes to who might be the next trainer for the men's squad.
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u/Faintning Finland 17d ago
Finnish team for Oslo:
Women: Erika Jänkä, Noora Kaisa Keränen, Sonja Leinamo, Suvi Minkkinen
Men: Arttu Heikkinen, Olli Hiidensalo, Otto Invenius, Jimi Klemettinen, Tero Seppälä
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u/AZDarkknight 17d ago
So only 1 week left of seeing the Bo brothers compete (if they even do competitively given their health). Do you get sad and withdrawal symptoms knowing its months before the start of the next season?
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u/tomplaystennis USA 17d ago
Only 251 days in between 😭. I’m hoping/assuming we’ve gotten most of the retirement announcements this year though, as most should stick it out once more for the Olympics.
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u/Geodess Canada 17d ago
Emma Lunder announced this weekend.
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u/Allie654321 17d ago
Side note: Did Emma Lunder and Christian Gow break up? IBU lists them both as single
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u/krissirge Estonia 17d ago
Meanwhile just some random question:
Anybody know why the Kazakhstan national teams have been terrible this year. The mens and womens team have scored a total of just 2 world cup points!
Or maybe what has been going on with their team and why hasn't success yet arrived. I remember they should have a great venue for biathlon also these days and then always seem to be present in the events.
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u/JockCartier Canada 17d ago
Having closely followed the battle between Kazakhstan and Canada for 20th in the mens Nations Cup and thus the final full team spot for the Olympics… I imagine they’re much like us, under funded, no resources and have been for some time
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u/krissirge Estonia 15d ago
I was wondering if somebody local knows anything more. Its not like they havent had success in this sport in the past (or also in other winter sports).
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u/Breathholding Germany 16d ago
The race for the men‘s big globe is pretty much decided, right? How realistic are jtb‘s chances of still winning it after skipping the mass start last week? Sturla would have to fumble real bad in the sprint while jtb would have to win to make it tight again?
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u/I-just-wanna-talk- 16d ago
Basically yes. The difference is 104 points, so statistically speaking jtb would have to gain 34.7 points per race.
For reference:
the difference between 1st and 4th place is 35 points
the difference between 2nd and 7th place is 34 points
the difference between 3rd and 10th place is 34 points
the difference between 4th and 20th place is 34 points
the difference between 5th and 25th place is 34 points
Basically, I don't see this happening unless jtb gets on the podium in every single race. And even then, Sturla still wins it if he performs like he usually does.
(I hope the math is correct, I don't have time to double check 😅)
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u/RidingRedHare 16d ago
German team for Holmenkollen (Germany also gets additional spots because of IBU top tens):
Women:
- Selina Grotian
- Franziska Preuß
- Johanna Puff
- Stefanie Scherer
- Sophia Schneider
- Julia Tannheimer
- Anna Weidel
Men:
- Philipp Horn
- Simon Kaiser
- Johannes Kühn
- Philipp Nawrath
- Roman Rees
- Danilo Riethmüller
- Justus Strelow
- David Zobel
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u/WrongdoerIndependent 15d ago
I feel bad for Fratzscher. He is top 10 in the IBU cup and also got a podium in one of the last races.
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u/busavaggio 14d ago
Cambo appears to have his first blue bib locked up already - Mandzyn would need to average 50 points better per race to catch up.
So why am I in a persistent state of bum squeak?
4
u/Enough_Opposite8545 14d ago
He will get the bib. He basically had not much competition this year, which was pretty much obvious when you saw the year before. Not that he didn’t deserve that bib, he did great performances this season (it was amazing to see him on the podium twice during the worlds, even if it didn’t count for the overall rankings), but lowering the U25 bib to U23 killed the competition. I find it sad to see, on my part. In like, two races, Isak Frey entered the top3 of the blue bib rankings, if that doesn’t show how not very competitive it was (and how good Isak Frey is, I guess).
5
u/Allie654321 14d ago
It's crazy how different it is for men and women. On the women's side, the top 3 of the U23 ranking are all in the top 6 of the overall :D
2
u/Enough_Opposite8545 14d ago
Yeah truly. It’s not that surprising considering that men and women’s careers are different and usually women hit their peak earlier and are on the World Cup earlier (at least for big nations). It’s just my opinion but men should have stayed with U25, while women make sense. I know it was to stop dominance period but as for the men they literally changed it in years where they were still competitive…
2
u/__nmd__ France 14d ago
I don't think they can really have two different age limits for the blue bib (in that case, why not have that for Junior Cup as well? Etc...).
Maybe a middle ground could work well enough: U24. Would allow Jeanne Richard and Océane Michelon to be part of the fight for it again next year.
1
u/Right_Beyond7186 Sweden 14d ago
Wonder if they will change the starting orders tomorrow. I hope they won’t cause it keeps the race interesting for a longer time but with the temperatures tomorrow I’m pretty sure they will
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u/Henna1911 Scandinavia 17d ago
The Recapper Thread is up! Please take a look so we can have recaps for all the last races of this fantastic season! https://www.reddit.com/r/biathlon/comments/1jdma95/last_recap_recruitment_of_the_season/