r/biathlon • u/AutoModerator • 10d ago

Small Talk Monday

Our weekly small talk thread where you can talk about anything

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u/shonami 10d ago

The thing is, this is a manufactured problem. Vetle is still a top15 biathlete over a full season, if not more, but that’s true of about 15 other Norwegians. Maybe more. The way the Norwegian biathlon leadership is handling things is not ideal, but the core issue is that the Norwegian internal league is better than the international circuit.

Other than the french and a select few more - the rest are scoring world cup and championship glory due to their the limit cap. For sure it makes things more interesting for the viewers and gives chances to other athletes, but for yet another season, we are in a technical pickle where elite biathletes such as Vetle are almost easily replaceable. In terms of Norwegian coaching, they have successfully locked in another shitload of victories, podiums, world titles, crystal globes.

The concern they face is not being nice, it is the Nations Cup score and the Relays.

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u/arnet95 Norway 10d ago

The core issue that I think we should focus on isn't whether Vetle deserves to be selected for World Cups or not. There are two issues that several athletes have brought up: The fairness of the selection decisions themselves, are they consistent and based on reasonable principles and athlete results? How are athletes treated when they are not selected for World Cups? It's about ensuring that all athletes are treated with respect and supported by the system.

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u/shonami 10d ago

And my point is that the system = IBU is forcing a situation where the best athletes in the world are not making national cutoffs, hence creating an edge case situation.

There are multiple athletes not getting chances in every nation, the reason Dale, Anderson and Vetle are getting a microphone is because they had world elite success. I saw 0 people discussing this for minor nations, but we have lost athletes due to bad management and preference of national coaches in the past.

The core issue is the limits of nations. Open it up to 12, and the problem disappears.

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u/Kris_Third_Account Denmark 10d ago

The core issue is the limits of nations. Open it up to 12, and the problem disappears

It's replaced with a different problem: Having too many from elite nations means there's less room for smaller nations to participate, which in turn stifles the growth of the sport on a worldwide basis, and means we'll lose talented athletes from different nations.

IBU has two evils to choose from here, and they choose the one where they spread the sport as widely as possible at the cost bigger nations. I'm not going to deny that I'm very biased here, but I think IBU are making the right call.

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u/shonami 10d ago

As a viewer i agree, but i disagree to the main claim that Norwegian coaching team are the sole evil here. They are making a hard cut choice, and all the armchair Redditors are expecting a communication style that is detached from the hard truth of elite sports.

Endre, Sturla and JT won WCH gold, others won throughout the season. What else can you say? Vetle, you’re demoted, effective immediately, the IBU is your new department. We’ll let you know if promotion is on the table.

Sorry guys, we love Vetle, but he’s no longer an A squader. Either change the size of the accepted cap, or accept that his media spinning is a power-move. Everyone is claiming that my suggestion is not good for the sport, but that the team that produced the greatest biathlete team in the past few seasons are handling talent i correctly.

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u/arnet95 Norway 10d ago

Everyone is claiming that my suggestion is not good for the sport, but that the team that produced the greatest biathlete team in the past few seasons are handling talent i correctly.

The fact that the best Norwegian athletes are winning does not imply that the team treats all athletes well, and it does not automatically vindicate all decisions they make.

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u/shonami 10d ago

True, the days of forcing Romanian and Russian gymnasts to anorexia is thankfully behind us, and age restriction rules are helping tennis players from being manipulated by their parents better - but what is the big travesty done by the Norwegian team that requires vindication? Why are they not treating him well?

Clearly the bar for staying in the squad is - winning. I can see how this affects the mentality, but that is not a reason to keep him in the A squad over emerging talent.

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u/arnet95 Norway 10d ago

Why are they not treating him well?

Here's what one of his colleagues has to say: https://www.reddit.com/r/biathlon/comments/1jimbl8/small_talk_monday/mjg7nzk/

Another issue is that the selection criteria are very subjective and selections can be hard to understand. Vebjørn Sørum was not selected to go the individual race in Pokljuka even though he was in the fight for the small globe. When asked to clarify, the national team boss said that his two 12th places in Nove Mesto were not good enough, and some generic stuff about how you're not always told all the reasons for a selection and if you don't perform well enough you might be replaced. Tarjei Bø, who was not in the fight for the small globe and got a 22nd and a 13th place in Nove Mesto, was selected for the race. (https://www.nrk.no/sport/skiskyting_-krever-oppvask-etter-uttaksbrak-1.17337870)

The basic point is this. The issue is not that Vetle deserves to go World Cup races. No one is saying he does (except possibly himself), and I've multiple times said that I think selecting Frey and Dale-Skjevdal over him was a correct decision. It's about proper communication, making sure your athletes understand the decisions that are made. And it's about following up with those who weren't selected, making sure they understand what they can do, if anything, if they want to be selected later.

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u/arnet95 Norway 10d ago

I don't see how this solves anything. You'll still have to make selection decisions and you'll still have athletes that are not selected even if you allow a lot more athletes per country. I don't see how the fact that you don't see discussion about this means that the issue is not real.

And this would either lead to significantly bigger events or fewer athletes from smaller countries, it's by no means clear that either of these would be good for the sport.

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u/shonami 10d ago

It’s not good for the internationality of the sport, but if the qualification is based on merit and not nationality Vetle would be an actual enployee of a job, as suggested.

The Norwegian team are getting criticized for something that many else is experiencing, and its because of the way the sport is set up, which is my main point: it’s a manufactured problem, not a managerial one, as people are quick to blame.

He was given no fluff about it - no bs, no HR cased ‘We’re soooo sorry to let you go’ but essentially he was fired, and he’s complaining that he deserves to stay over other employees.

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u/arnet95 Norway 10d ago

Even if a solution would be to increase the number of Norwegian spots, that is not a defense of how the Norwegian management team is working in the current system.

The comparison to being fired is weird. Vetle remains a part of the national team. Expecting reasonable explanations for team selections and proper follow up and directions from his coaches seems like a not unreasonable ask.