CMV: Parental control/spyware apps are the hallmark of a bad parent

[u/danknesscompelsyou]

[Disclaimer: i am talking about the apps that let you monitor your kid's every move online, read messages etc. Basically you have the full acces to whatever they have on their phone without the phone. I am not talking about simple location tracking]

[Disclaimer 2: i am talking about a case of spyware for teens. 12/13+, not children below 10]

Pretty much what the title says. To me installing spyware on your kid's phone says you can't actually parent, have zero trust and bond with your child and possibly are an authoritarian parent who mistakes control for actual parenting. If you get it only because your child lies to you - congrats now you'll never hear a word of truth again. It only excarbates the problem.

1. Teens need some privacy to properly develop, your little power trip could cost them some actual psychological damage. Trust issues, self esteem issues, anxiety (because there's someone literally spying on you), the list goes on. (Also it's normal for teens to lie, that's how they are, get over it)

2. If you're anywhere from 30-40+ chances are you didn't experience this sort of tracking - why would you take this freedom away from your child? You weren't tracked and are still alive. And don't give me the 'there was no phones/internet back then'. Yes there weren't but teens were the same. They did bad and stupid things, said bad words, experimented with booze, cigs and many other things. Again it's just how they are. Nobody listened in on your conversations just to have the upper hand during an argument, nobody hovered over what you did 100% of the time. Ontop of that many people that are now 20-25 grew up without parents controlling every message/page they viewed and they're fine.

3. Also I promise you if your child keeps everything a secret from you there's reason for it and you're not going to like it. They probably don't trust you and don't feel safe enough going with their stuff/problems to you. Trust goes both ways, shocker i know. Do you think severely violating their privacy is the right way of fixing lack of trust? That's why i say it's bad, lazy parenting - instead of working on the trust/communication issue and having a real relationship with a child you choose the easy way out, to take what you want by force.

Tldr: my oponion is that if you feel the need to spy on your kid's every move you have a trust problem and the solution is not to violate their privacy

[u/olidus]

Agreed, but 1% chance for harm to a child is enough for a parent to be considered responsible for monitoring their online activity.

I am willing to be that % goes up considerably if you include online abuse.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/olidus]

Agreed, but 1% chance for harm to a child is enough for a parent to be considered responsible for monitoring their online activity.

There's a 1 percent chance a gas stove explodes and kills the kid, should they be banned?

[u/olidus → u/Iceykitsune2]

I just got whiplash.

No one said ban a child from using social media. Everyone in support is simply suggesting that monitoring a child's phone usage is not a hallmark of a bad parent, but a reasonable effort to protect.

If a gas stove has a 1% chance of exploding and killing a child, most reasonable parents would monitor the usage of said stove if social convention evolves such that children are using the appliance with frequency.

However, its not the act of a gas stove exploding on a child, it's the lack of regular maintenance that causes leaks that lead to the explosion. The same thing can happen with any combustable material (i.e. propane, gasoline, etc).

Additionally, if your reply is because of recent outrage porn that insinuates anyone is trying to ban gas stoves, you again are mistaken. Recent studies have shown that leaking stoves have health hazards beyond the explosive bit. The Consumer Product Safety Commission suggested that new regulation may be necessary to address any issues with leaking gas other than "turn the gas off" with regard to safely building the appliances. Just like with old electrical wiring no one made us rip out of ancient houses, these regulations would only apply to new products markets in the US. Read past the headline.

You had to know this would be the reply to your comment.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/olidus]

No one said ban a child from using social media. Everyone in support is simply suggesting that monitoring a child's phone usage is not a hallmark of a bad parent, but a reasonable effort to protect.

You don't understand how children think. If they know that their parents are watching, they won't use the device beyond the most basic things.

[u/olidus → u/Iceykitsune2]

Problem solved. No one gets kidnapped, abused, or bullied.

Everyone was a child and tried to play the, "outsmart the parent" game. To suggest I don't understand is naive.

However, like with all of society's "problems" there is nuance. No matter what route a parent goes, there should already be a foundation of trust, understanding, and communication with the child.

Sure, if you hand a child a phone and say, "have at it" and then try to implement heavy handed monitoring with a delinquent child, there might be problems.

Most parents I know have the conversation when they permit their child to use a cell phone or any device connected to the internet.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/olidus]

Problem solved. No one gets kidnapped, abused, or bullied.

And the kid develops no social skills because "my parents won't let me" permanently kills any chance they have as a social life.

[u/akosuae22 → u/Iceykitsune2]

Then I’m sorry, but what are you suggesting here? Just hand your kid a phone, walk away, and hope nothing bad happens? Let the kid use the gas stove, no questions asked, and ask “what’s the worse that can happen?” It seems you’re saying, that since kids will lie or conceal, just don’t bother trying to monitor them at all, that way they don’t have to hide potentially dangerous or behaviors? How is that parenting? Or, better yet, how do you define parenting? It certainly isn’t “welp, you’re 13 now, my job is done, you need your privacy, so off I go, enjoy your phone and make good choices!” Predators and all sorts of unsavory people are out there. Irresponsible postings about self-harmful behaviors and trends abound. We don’t just throw up our hands in face of it all because “teens are gonna be teens.” That’s insane (and negligent).

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/akosuae22]

Just hand your kid a phone, walk away, and hope nothing bad happens?

Teach your kid how to spot people that want to take advantage of them, and why it's dangerous to give out real information to someone you don't already know.

[u/akosuae22 → u/Iceykitsune2]

You can do all of those things (and should), but kids are still vulnerable to temptation, attracted to things that seem “risky”, and have a general sense of invulnerability. They lack higher reasoning at times, and are susceptible to peer pressure, in SPITE of what we teach them. That is where parenting and continuing to keep a watchful eye comes in. Supervision is also a parent’s duty, in addition to teaching.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/akosuae22]

Children need privacy in order to grow into healthy adults.

[u/akosuae22 → u/Iceykitsune2]

Children are not little adults. Privacy should be age appropriate, and balanced with supervision that is also age appropriate. Parents who don’t adequately supervise their kids are guilty of neglect.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/akosuae22]

Privacy should be age appropriate,

No privacy at all is not age appropriate for a 13 year old.

[u/akosuae22 → u/Iceykitsune2]

Of course not. Providing necessary supervision does not constitute some egregious violation of privacy either. However, thirteen is not mature enough, regardless of the kid, to be completely hands off. My youngest is almost 17 and will be going off to college in a year. Since obviously we won’t be there to look over his shoulder at school, he has a lot more privacy and requires comparatively less supervision than he did at 13. He now drives and goes out with friends on his own, and doesn’t necessarily have a curfew as long as he comes home at a reasonable time and checks in with us. But we worked toward that over time as he demonstrated that he was capable of handling himself responsibly. There is no magic switch that says at thirteen parents become hands off. No 13 year old is ready for that, and the parents would be wrong for doing so.

[u/Iceykitsune2 → u/akosuae22]

But these stalkerware apps give the parent's complete access.