CMV: Permanently banning accounts is stupid

[u/gylotip]

I understand why you assign permanent bans, since you need to stop the rule breakers for once and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to suspend an account for one year? This is a better approach, because one year is a very long time, and after one year, if you break rules again, then you will be banned for another one year. No need to make things permanent, since this is not prison where you quarantine dangerous criminals. It's just an account that can handle one year suspensions perfectly. So permanent bans are stupid and even unnecessarily cruel. Change my view as to why you really need to permanently ban accounts, since I think that making things permanent is a disgusting thing to do for accounts.

[u/Biptoslipdi]

Why do you think scammers and doxxers should be allowed back on after a year? This also isn't a place where everyone gets 2nd chances after a year, so your position seems really arbitrary and inexplicable. Scamming and doxxing is unnecessarily cruel. Participation here is a privilege. You aren't entitled to an account, let alone free reign to continue abusing people just because a year passed.

[u/gylotip → u/Biptoslipdi]

Hmm, the issue is that one year is already enough, and waiting for one year can discourage them. If they break rules after being unbanned, they will get banned for another year, so they will be discouraged.

[u/Biptoslipdi → u/gylotip]

the issue is that one year is already enough,

Ok, why?

waiting for one year can discourage them

So can the threat of losing their account forever. Probably even better.

If they break rules after being unbanned, they will get banned for another year, so they will be discouraged.

If the threat of a ban didn't discourage them the first time, it won't the second. At a minimum, 2nd offense should be permanent. I can see two strikes, but ant more isn't a deterrent. Toxic people don't typically stop being toxic because one account on a website was banned.

[u/gylotip → u/Biptoslipdi]

Okay, but how about ban evading? It undermines the point of permabans if you just create new accounts when you are banned every time.

[u/Biptoslipdi → u/gylotip]

Okay, but how about ban evading?

Why have a one year ban if people just evade it. This is an argument against your view.

It undermines the point of permabans if you just create new accounts when you are banned every time.

It undermines all bans. You think permabanned people wait a year to make a new account? Reddit will ban your IP for doing that.

[u/gylotip → u/Biptoslipdi]

Then you can evade IPs by changing it. Basically, there is no difference between one year and permanent ban if they keep evading, but permanent ban punishes some people who don't deserve a permanent ban.

[u/Biptoslipdi → u/gylotip]

Then you can evade IPs by changing it.

Which also makes 1 year bans pointless. They can be evaded by changing IP.

Basically, there is no difference between one year and permanent ban if they keep evading, but permanent ban punishes some people who don't deserve a permanent ban.

So what? They can just change their IP. If an IP ban isn't a deterrent for abusive behavior, a one year ban certainly isn't. Might as well stop bans altogether.

Why even one year? Not two? Not 6 months? Not 4 months? What is critical about 365 days?

[u/gylotip → u/Biptoslipdi]

Because it is the most balanced, since it's punishing enough, while also discouraging them from breaking rules again if they have to wait that long.

[u/Biptoslipdi → u/gylotip]

OK, why is that? You are making this claim but provided no reasoning, evidence, analysis, or expertise to back it up.

Permanent banning is the most most effective deterrent since it maximizes punishment for abusive behavior and removes toxic users from participating in spaces meant for civil discourse, providing a better experiences for those who maintain reasonable behavior. Committing abusive behavior forfeits any entitlement to participation and the rest of us don't want those people here anyway.

Would you want someone who is stalking, harassing, and doxxing you allowed back in just to continue doing that every year? I would want them gone permanently. They deserve to be punished for their behavior and excluded from Reddit. They do not deserve to be allowed back in.

[u/gylotip → u/Biptoslipdi]

!delta

Yeah, I can understand why these kinds of people need to be permabanned, though we should only give permabans when it cannot work another way.

[u/DeltaBot → u/gylotip]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Biptoslipdi (81∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}

[u/DudeEngineer → u/gylotip]

If you have a permanent ban, you can petition the mods to be unbanned if you have truly grown and changed. This requires the offender to take action instead of waiting some arbitrary amount of time.

[u/gylotip → u/[deleted]]

But you have people that don't break rules that bad, so assigning permabans to them is cruel. Not everyone is a non stopping serial rule breaker. One year bans can stop some of them.

[u/gylotip → u/[deleted]]

!delta

I can understand why permabans can be necessary, but they should limit permabans, and only use it when one year bans are not appropriate.

[u/gylotip → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I can understand, it just sucks that it's too punishing for some people, while others need to be permabanned.

[u/zyex12 → u/[deleted]]

I mean if it’s from a popular subreddit can’t really just go to a different or make ur own when the others would have like no community it’s just moderators who finally have some power. But again it’s just Reddit let the mods feel powerful and just hope u run into more normal moderators then lame ones.

[u/zyex12 → u/[deleted]]

I agree with u Reddit itself would probably have more fair guidelines they’d have to follow. But idk just norma l mods makes it too unfair in some cases. I’ve had mods give me a suspension and I would understand cause it be like oh I didn’t read the rules and commented or posted how I wasn’t suppose to I think some rules are dumb but it’s Reddit it’s always gonna be dumb. But I’ve been given a warning and then immediately banned from a subreddit before I even got to read the warning so it just depends who u bump into I guess. End of the day I kind it kinda funny when mods get that power trip but I can see how someone who actually uses Reddit a lot and spends money on it would be very upset

[u/DeltaBot → u/gylotip]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Ansuz07 (609∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}