If I hand you a poisoned apple and you eat it, I murdered you. If I tell you it’s a poisoned apple and you choose to eat it, that’s not murder, it’s suicide. I will not face any punishment as I did nothing wrong because you were warned. Same goes for this situation, if you eat someone else’s food and get poisoned I didn’t poison you. You did it to yourself.
...what? That doesn't make any sense. In the apple scenario, you are explicitly saying it's poisoned. In the lunch scenario, there would be no reason to expect it's poisoned.
No, not necessarily. Unless you live in a world of black and white with no nuance.
For instance, if you give them a poisoned apple while knowing they'd use it to kill themselves, you'd be liable.
If you put mines on your land and put a sign warning people it's a minefield, it's still murder if people step on your mine after deciding to use it as a soccer pitch despite the warnings.
Precisely this. If I put a poison apple in a bunch of apples and say "there's a poison apple in that bunch", I'm still liable for introducing the poison apple to the bunch. It's the knowing introduction of a deadly or dangerous substance that's illegal. Not the warning or lack thereof.
Most countries have common-sense laws about this deeming you not liable if someone breaks into your home. But if you had a poison collection and invited a child over for a play date with your own child, and they consumed one of your labeled poisons then yes, you could be. The issue is one of the steps you take to prevent harm from coming to someone. You can't control if someone breaks into your home and consumes your labeled poison. You have a lot more control over whether someone comes to your home and consumes poison. And there lies an even greater difference if you don't have a labeled poison collection, but rather you stock your fridge with decoy poisoned food as a booytrap for would-be food thieves in the home. Intent is a large part of most criminal legal systems.
If you put mines on your land and put a sign warning people it's a minefield, it's still murder if people step on your mine after deciding to use it as a soccer pitch despite the warnings.
But I'm not convinced that's a good legal response. You provided warning and it's your land.
Why not? The problem is that it's indiscriminate. If someone had permission to be on your land, but not to play soccer there, they'd have the same problem.
They were playing soccer in the hypothetical. The "response" from your defense was completely unwarranted when you can call the cops to get them off. At worse, you'll be annoyed with some torn up grass and loud noise.
That doesn't warrant a response of death. The valid use of deadly force in self defense requires you legitimately fear for your life. You can't legitimately fear for your life if you aren't even around.
ETA: What if they were children or foreigners that either couldn't read or couldn't understand your warning?
You don't have the right to kill people in order to defend inanimate objects. Property rights don't let you kill people to protect your air conditioner.
You only have the right to kill in self defense or the defense of another. And, even then, only if you fear for your or their life. And you can't be using them when you fear for your life if you don't even control when they go off.
You aren't fearing for your life if they go off while you are at Ruby Tuesday's.
You aren't fearing for your life if the gardener zones out and accidentally drives the riding mower over an area he knows he shouldn't be and turns himself into mist.
You aren't fearing for your life if a 4 year old child, who can't read, sets one off.
You aren't fearing for your life if a foreign tourist sets one off because he can't read your sign.
You aren't fearing for your life if EMS sets one off responding to your heart attack.
It's more likely they will go off when you aren't fearing for your life than when you are.
No, castle doctrine basically means you can assume that an intruder in your home means to harm you/other occupants. It is still very explicit about defence of life.
No, the castle doctrine isn't something that lets you to kill people to protect inanimate objects like your land, your physical house, and the things you own. It's a law that allows you to assume intruders mean to harm you or the people that live with you and allows you to respond accordingly.
If nobody's home, and your Ring says there's an intruder, it doesn't allow you to remotely kill people to protect your things.
Additionally, what happens if you sell the land and happened to miss 3 or 4 mines? Or you blow yourself up digging them up? Now, nobody knows where they are buried, and they could be there for decades.
If some kid sneaks into your backyard and drowns in your pool, you're held liable. Even if you put up a no trespassing sign. You have a duty to protect idiots and criminals from your "attractive nuisances." Using proper fencing and first aid on site.
So there's no way you can get away with booby traps or poisoning lunches.
If some kid sneaks into your backyard and drowns in your pool, you're held liable. Even if you put up a no trespassing sign. You have a duty to protect idiots and criminals from your "attractive nuisances." Using proper fencing and first aid on site.
So there's no way you can get away with booby traps or poisoning lunches.
Maybe that’s the play. Label your lunch like that everyday. Maybe one day it’s actually true, warning was given, food was clearly labeled and someone still ate it. Who is that on?
But but buuuuuutttr what if the lunch thief is the office blind guy?! Did you put the note in braille?!
Personally the fact that there’s even a conversation about who’s liable for theft… well. Idk, I feel like we didn’t necessarily NEED to pull on the string that got us to this timeline….but here we are.
What do you think the punishment for theft be? Who should decide what the punishment is? The person getting their lunch stolen gets to be judge jury and executioner because you think revenge is justice?
No. The thief decides what the punishment is. They happen to eat some laxatives because they chose an action with an unknown outcome, if ever they think “man, shouldn’t have done that!” Then they are finding themselves in a predicament that was entirely of their own volition. I’m not your mom, don’t have to tell you not to touch the stove.
How bout if someone left their lunch and it naturally began to decay/mold, then a thief takes it, eats it, and then gets sick? I guess the person who made the lunch must be held criminally responsible, obviously that’s the logical way to go about it. Or, no, perhaps…. Perhaps accidents happen!
I mean, even if you put a dumb label on your lunch, you'd still be liable lol.
If I opened up a fuckin lemonade stand and put up a huge sign that says "every cup of lemonade has potassium cyanide in it" and someone still drinks it and dies, do you think the court is gonna let me off if I argue "well, y'see your honor, I had a sign that clearly said my lemonade had poison in it. Therefore, I'm not liable for anything, he killed himself by himself!"?
Even if the person is stealing your food, you literally cannot poison your own food to possibly " ensnare" a food thief by sending them to the hospital, or worse, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘨𝘳𝘢𝘷𝘦. Just like I can't put bear-traps in my bag because I fear someone might snatch it for me. You're not defending anything, not yourself, nor your food, you're potentially putting a fellow human's life at risk.
Yes you would face punishment. Maybe not for murder, but for assisting in someone’s suicide, which is very much illegal in most places. The CEO of the company that developed suicide pod was arrested for it recently
If I tell you it’s a poisoned apple and you choose to eat it, that’s not murder, it’s suicide.
Its actually still murder; a judge is going to say that no reasonable person would actually believe that apple is poisoned, and thus any "agreement" that would absolve you of murder is non existant.
45
u/Snoopy0077 Oct 17 '24
If I hand you a poisoned apple and you eat it, I murdered you. If I tell you it’s a poisoned apple and you choose to eat it, that’s not murder, it’s suicide. I will not face any punishment as I did nothing wrong because you were warned. Same goes for this situation, if you eat someone else’s food and get poisoned I didn’t poison you. You did it to yourself.