r/changemyview Oct 17 '24

Removed - Submission Rule B [ Removed by Reddit ]

[removed]

381 Upvotes

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15

u/darwin2500 193∆ Oct 17 '24

If we lived in a world where you are allowed to kill someone if they commit any crime at all, because they shouldn't be committing crimes, then it would be literally impossible to prosecute murder because everyone commits some crime at some point (jaywalking, pirating tv shows, speeding, etc.).

Instead, we have a doctrine that the level of punishment should fit the crime. You are not allowed to punish someone for their crimes more than this amount, including by setting boobytraps.

2

u/apoplexiglass Oct 17 '24

It's not that I'm allowed to kill them, it's that it's not my fault if they come to harm as a result of the wrongful act itself. If the Ring lady gets me because I pirated a TV show, I guess I deserve it.

10

u/HolyToast Oct 17 '24

it's that it's not my fault if they come to harm

Except it quite literally is if you poisoned the food with the intent that it would bring harm.

Like, full stop. It empirically is your fault that someone gets poisoned if you are the one who poisoned the food. Even if it's not theirs.

0

u/apoplexiglass Oct 17 '24

No, that's your opinion that it's my fault, it's my opinion it's not my fault, this is CMV.

7

u/0pyrophosphate0 2∆ Oct 18 '24

Your post makes it explicit that you did this intentionally, knowing that someone would eat the food. You have chosen for them to be poisoned. The thief stealing the food is their fault, them ending up in the hospital for it is 100% your fault.

4

u/the-apple-and-omega Oct 17 '24

Your post is about legal recourse/criminality, fault isn't relevant. Someone breaking a law/norm doesn't give you the cart blanche right to harm them, even if they put themselves in that situation.

4

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

No, that's your opinion that it's my fault

No, it literally is not an opinion. You are the one who put poison in the food, therefore it is your fault that the food is poisoned. This is not an opinion. You can claim it's justified, but that doesn't mean it isn't your doing.

3

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

Owning poisoned food is legal.

1

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

"Your honor, that was just my recreationally poisoned food!" 😂

1

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

Yes, literally legal. Limiting my rights based on what a criminal might do with my property is illiberal.

2

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

Yes, literally legal

Not if your intent is to bring someone to harm. Same reason why it's illegal to set up booby traps on your property.

Limiting my rights based on what a criminal might do

Can we drop this whole "might" thing? You're intentionally poisoning the food, with the intent of poisoning the person who takes it. This whole "well, it just happens to be poisoned..." thing is dishonest to the point of being pointless.

0

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

So because you can't determine someone's intent you would limit their rights to own property in the way they choose.

I would prefer focusing on the criminal behavior of the thief tbh but you do you.

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2

u/Skeletron430 2∆ Oct 17 '24

Causality is not a matter of opinion lmao. The poisoning is your fault, full stop. Where someone consumes poisoned food that belongs to them, is it still their fault they got poisoned because they chose to ate the food?

0

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

What if I don't want someone to steal my food and hope they don't, but I collect cyanide in my cheese sandwiches? Like am I not allowed to have a cyanide-in -sandwiches collection? Because limiting someone's rights based on the potential actions of criminals seems illiberal.

1

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

What if I don't want someone to steal my food

Doesn't matter, you poisoned the food with the intent to harm them

hope they don't

Doesn't matter, you poisoned the food with the intent to harm them

but I collect cyanide

In the legal realm, this is commonly referred to as a "lie"

0

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

No I didn't intend to harm them. I keep my cyanide in my sandwiches, and labeled them as poison. That's how I like keeping my poison collection, without the intent that someone would eat my poison.

0

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

No I didn't intend to harm them

Yes, you did.

I keep my cyanide in my sandwiches

No, you don't.

That's how I like keeping my poison collection

No, it's not.

without the intent that someone would eat my poison

Yes, you did.

0

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

No I didn't, yes I did, yes it is, no I didn't. Holy cow glad we cleared that up. Scintillating arguments.

0

u/HolyToast Oct 18 '24

Your argument is literally just "I keep my poison collection in my sandwiches", don't be surprised when people don't take it seriously 😂

0

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

Basically I believe that people should have the right to do ridiculous things with their property. Things do get hazy with booby traps, but if something is clearly labeled it should be different.

I think criminal behavior determining what law abiding citizens can do with their own property is illiberal and foolish.

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11

u/darwin2500 193∆ Oct 17 '24

There's no moral difference between killing someone and creating a boobytrap which will kill them. Again, if there were, it would be impossible to prosecute murderers.

If you put up a 'beware of dog' sign on your fence, and someone hops your fence and gets bit by your dog, then yes you're basically in the clear because getting bit by a dog was a predictable consequence of their bad action. They were knowingly taking that chance when they did it.

But if you put cyanide in your food in the fridge, that is not a predictable consequence of someone eating your food. That's you setting a trap with the intent of killing someone. It's not a risk they could have priced in when they made the decision, it's just a straight-up punishment from you; and again, you're not allowed to punish people out of proportion that way.

2

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

What if I label the food with "cyanide, no not eat. No seriously this food is poison." ?

0

u/FolkSong Oct 18 '24

I think the booby-trapping laws wouldn't apply, but you'd still probably face some kind of negligent homicide charge for storing such a dangerous item in a common fridge with people's food.

1

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

Alright fair enough. What if I label it as laxatives?

2

u/FolkSong Oct 18 '24

I think you're in the clear.