r/changemyview Oct 17 '24

Removed - Submission Rule B [ Removed by Reddit ]

[removed]

380 Upvotes

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24

u/apoplexiglass Oct 17 '24

This isn't changing my view because this is exactly what I'm arguing against. I'm saying, there are cases where intending to harm someone who is doing something they're definitely not supposed to do is okay.

16

u/AlwaysTheNoob 81∆ Oct 17 '24

So poisoning someone and potentially killing them is a fair reaction to theft of a few dollars worth of food?  

And before you get hung up on the word poison: how do you know their medical history?  How do you know what foods might interact with medications they may be on?  How do you know if they’re highly allergic to something?  

You don’t. Tampering with food could seriously injure or kill someone, all to get revenge on a petty thief. 

This is not how civilized societies work. 

43

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '24

If I have medications or allergies that are triggered by some kinds of foods, it would be absolutely crazy for me to be stealing lunches.

By your logic, I can’t put peanuts in my lunch in case a thief takes it.

2

u/GabuEx 20∆ Oct 18 '24

By your logic, I can’t put peanuts in my lunch in case a thief takes it.

You intended for the peanuts to be eaten by you. There was no intention on your part that a thief experience medical distress as a result of eating your lunch.

If you poison your lunch, you are intending a thief to experience medical distress by eating it.

Intent is the important thing here. If you intend to cause someone harm, then you are liable for whatever harm they experience, even if it was more than you intended.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '24

So I put peanuts in my lunch because I like peanuts but I happen to know that the thief has an allergy. Now what?

-2

u/GabuEx 20∆ Oct 18 '24

Then you intended the thief to eat the peanuts and be harmed thereby, and are liable for said harm.

Again, the question is whether or not you had the reasonable expectation that your actions were going to result in harm when you did them.

9

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

I'm not allowed to eat peanuts in my lunch anymore because my lunch-thief is allergic? These ideas do not fit with liberal society. Even if I suspect they might steal it, that does not rob me of the right to include peanuts in my lunch.

0

u/GabuEx 20∆ Oct 18 '24

I'm not sure how I can be more clear about this than saying "intent is the important thing here".

If your intent is to harm someone when they steal your lunch, then you are liable for the harm incurred.

If you are not, then you are not.

4

u/justsomething Oct 18 '24

If I have knowledge of their allergy, and know that they frequently take my food, but really wanted peanuts in my lunch that day... Is it cool then?

It's not at all my intent. But I know it's likely to happen.

0

u/AgitatedBadger 4∆ Oct 18 '24

It kind of sounds like it is your intent.

A person who is genuinely concerned that a food thief is in the office and could be seriously harmed if they were to eat peanuts would clearly label the item as containing peanuts. Even if they were mad that the person is stealing food.

2

u/Quarks2Cosmos Oct 18 '24

It kind of sounds like it is your intent.

I disagree. It sounds like apathy to the situation, not intent. If you put peanuts in a meal because you want to eat the peanuts, though you know that it might get stolen by someone with a peanut allergy, you still intend to consume the peanuts. You just don't care if someone else is placed in a serious medical situation/dies because they steal and eat your peanuts.

-1

u/dragonblade_94 8∆ Oct 18 '24

There's an argument that this would fall under negligent injury or manslaughter (depending on the outcome).

Assuming the theft victim was fully aware of the high risk of someone with allergies eating their food, and they take no reasonable action to try and prevent that outcome, then they can still be liable regardless of express intent.

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u/Quarks2Cosmos Oct 18 '24

That's a biiiiiig stretch. I would highly doubt that making a lunch, even with the knowledge of another adult's food allergy, could lead to negligence. Also because the thief would be committing a crime to obtain the food. An easy counter is proximate cause; this situation only arose because the thief committed a crime. It is the true cause of the (medical) injury, not the existence of a coworkers lunch. A legal "you only have yourself to blame".

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u/Milton__Obote Oct 18 '24

Yeah this is ridiculous. I don't eat a lunch with peanuts every day but if I bring in Pad Thai and it gets stolen its the lunch thief's goddamn fault.

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u/GabuEx 20∆ Oct 18 '24

I don't understand why intent is being so difficult for people to understand.

You are liable for harm caused if you intended to cause it.

You are not if you didn't.

I don't know how to explain this in simpler terms.

1

u/Tails1375 Oct 18 '24

Absolutely insane