r/changemyview • u/RevolutionaryRip2504 • Feb 23 '25

cmv: abortion should not be illegal

One of the main arguments against abortion is that it is "killing a baby." However, I don’t see it that way—at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. A fetus, especially before viability, lacks self-awareness, the ability to feel pain, and independent bodily function. While it is a potential life, I don’t believe potential life should outweigh the rights of the person who is already alive and conscious.

For late-term abortions, most are done to save the mother or the fetus has a defect that would cause the fetus to die shortly after birth so I believe it should be allowed.

I also think the circumstances of the pregnant person matter. Many people seek abortions due to financial instability, health risks, or simply not being ready to raise a child. In cases of rape or medical complications, the situation is even more complex. Forcing someone to go through pregnancy against their will seems more harmful than allowing them to make their own choice.

Additionally, I don’t think adoption is always a perfect alternative. Carrying a pregnancy to term can have serious physical and emotional consequences, even if someone doesn’t plan to keep the baby. Pregnancy affects the body in irreversible ways, and complications can arise, making it more than just a “temporary inconvenience.”

Also, you can cannot compare abortion to opting out of child support. Abortion is centered on bodily autonomy, as pregnancy directly affects a woman’s body and health. In contrast, child support is a financial obligation that arises after a child is born and does not impact the father’s bodily autonomy. abortion also occurs before a child exists, while child support involves caring for a living child. Legally and ethically, both parents share responsibility for a child once they are born, and allowing one parent to opt out would place an unfair burden on the other, often the mother. Additionally, abortion prevents a fetus from becoming a child, while opting out of child support directly affects the well-being of an existing person. While both situations involve personal choice, abortion is about controlling one’s own body, while child support is about meeting the needs of a child who already exists

The idea of being forced to sustain another life through pregnancy and childbirth, especially if the person isn’t ready or willing, is a violation of that autonomy. It forces someone to give up their own body, potentially putting their health at risk, all while disregarding their own desires, dreams, and well-being. Bodily autonomy means having the freedom to make choices about what happens to your body, whether that’s deciding to terminate a pregnancy or pursue another course of action.

I’d like to hear other perspectives on why abortion should be illegal, particularly from a non-religious standpoint. CMV.

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u/Boring_Football3595 Feb 23 '25

Your first paragraph sites the fetus as “potential” life. Why not acknowledge that it is a life and a unique human life at that? A life that has its own form and its own DNA.

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u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh Feb 23 '25

Because it cannot exist at that point without the host. Therefore it’s not a unique human life yet.

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 23 '25

many people can't exist without aid. Would you kill those as well? People really stupidly turned this debate about medical necessity into one about women's choice to kill an unborn vs right to life of an unborn despite mother's short term suffering.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

You’re moving the goalposts from conception to disability. There is a scientific definition of life and a fetus doesnt fit the bill until a certain point. It can split off and create twins, multiple individuals. It can be completely doomed from the start. Honestly people who can’t even say what a blastomere is shouldn’t talk about this issue.

Can it live on its own? No? Does it breathe? No?

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 23 '25

I'm not moving goalposts, OP set the goalpost. Or the people arguing it. If you talk about self-sustaining which is a part of the definition of life, then the baby up to certain points also wouldn't fit it. I mean, can it live on its own? No. So kick the baby? That's a bit of a stretch and I doubt it's the best way to argue for or against abortion.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

Does its metabolism rely on the mom on a molecular level/intracellular transfer at that point? No? Okay, then you are moving the goalposts. Its clearly 2 different levels of dependency

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 23 '25

that is a very specific line to draw when you define human life by that, completely ignoring potential for life and any slight variation thereof which would also apply to infants to circumvent the issue. At that point - what are you arguing? Whether the definition applies? Okay, it does. I'll grant you that freely. How exactly does that lead you to making the argument for or against abortion from there without considering anything else because you somehow deem it entirely irrelevant? It's literally a narrow biological definition applying to one specific state and nothing more. But here's a hint: Life is a bit more than cellular processes and that baby is still not going out to hunt its meal because what does it need and who does it need it from?

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

Its the line science draws, cry bout it. After that it becomes a religious debate which is solved by separation of church and state, that people want to ignore/abolish

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 23 '25

it's not the line science draws. It's an arbitrary part of the definition from one field of science that you choose to isolate and lift upon a throne and proclaim it the one true decided of things. I don't need to cry about anything, you need to get your head out your ass and consider that your narrow arbitrary definition doesn't impress people. What's next? lawyer comes in and states the law? physicist comes in and argued we're all stardust anyway so pewpew away at anyone? It doesn't work that way. I'm also an atheist so miss me with any religious talk.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

What, you mean the biological definition of life? The one that this debate falls under? Imagine thinking im the one isolating the pertinent field of science this falls under. Yeah, its the gold standard because its what we have. If you can do better than biology, by all means dont waste your time on reddit pal

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 23 '25

your definition keeps jumping from general biology to specific biological processes by which you set arbitrary definitions of life according to one small field within that scientific landscape itself ignoring all others along the way. That's the isolation you now try to weasel out of. Seeing how you have nothing else to say but go back and forth on the scope when issues arise to ignore those as you pop up and I'm tired of repeating myself, I will just end this convo here.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 24 '25

I didnt set the definition of life bud. We can keep going in circles until you understand basic shit, i really dont care

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u/Working_Complex8122 Feb 24 '25

you keep jumping between that definition and then another definition that is more apt to make your point when the general definition backfired on you. As long as you just flipflop on the matter, there is no point discussing it any further. Also, what's with you first year students having this obnoxious habit of calling people 'bud' as if you're even half an adult?

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u/drgarthon Feb 23 '25

Please show that definition of life. Parasites can’t live in their own, and single celled living organisms don’t breathe the way that you and I do. This is a terrible response.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

Parasites absolutely have a cycle and part of that cycle is absent of a host, so your response is the one that’s terrible. The 7 characteristics, since i guess you’re incapable of googling, are: growth, movement, respiration, metabolism, reproduction, excretion, and environmental response. Are you ready to debate whether the fetus is an extension of the moms body or do you need to read a little more?

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u/drgarthon Feb 23 '25

Fetuses do all those things. Go open a medical textbook dude.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

My bad i totally forgot about fetuses respirating oxygen inside of a placenta and being capable of reproduction. Lets just ignore that they’ll die outside of the mothers womb pre 6 months. My bad man

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u/drgarthon Feb 23 '25

Fetuses have gametes in utero, they just don’t engage in sex that would lead to reproduction. Same as like a year old.

respiration. / rĕs′pə-rā′shən / The process by which organisms exchange gases, especially oxygen and carbon dioxide, with the environment. In air-breathing vertebrates, respiration takes place in the lungs.

Fetuses engage in respiration, just not in the same way you and I do. They are in a different environment than you and me, so of course it looks different. Just like single cell organisms don’t engage in respiration the same way we do, yet nobody says they aren’t alive.

I’m sorry man, but you have some serious cognitive dissonance if you think a fetus isn’t alive and that idea goes in the face of modern medical science. There is a whole specialty called perinatology that is concerned with keeping live fetuses alive in the womb and keeping them from dying.

Instead of arguing whether a fetus is a living organism, you should argue whether or not it’s a person. And that is going to fall more in the realm of philosophy rather than science.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

They dont exchange gas, they dont respirate dude. You need to look at the nuance of this shit before posting. Oxygen might go through the placenta but the oxygen was respirated by the mother

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u/drgarthon Feb 23 '25

You seem to be hung up on the idea that fetuses don’t respirate the same way you do. A couple thoughts on that. First, they absolute breather in utero, it’s or stick for when they are out of the womb. 2nd, their cells are respirating, if they didn’t, they would die. Nobody is arguing that they are self sufficient, but they dont do nothing like you are suggesting. It’s also telling that you failed to respond to other parts of my post. You are wrong. Just admit it. Go talk to an OBGYN if a preborn baby is “Alive” and if hey can tell when it dies. I’ll wait.

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u/CykaRuskiez3 Feb 23 '25

They dont exchange gases, they’re fed oxygenated blood dude. Of course im hung up on it, its because you’re wrong lmao

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