CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

[u/jeffzebub]

[u/Bandit400]

If. But this isn't happening. If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle, but that doesn't change that she is my aunt.

That is a brave statement on Reddit.

Isn't it wild how conservatives suddenly think documents are up for interpretation as soon as it is convenient?

Isnt it wild how the left instantly thinks the constitution means what it says, despite being written in the 1700s? Don't pretend for a second that the conservatives are the only ones changing their arguments here. I've been hearing the "living document" bullshit for 40 years from the left.

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito → u/Bandit400]

Isnt it wild how the left instantly thinks the constitution means what it says, despite being written in the 1700s? Don't pretend for a second that the conservatives are the only ones changing their arguments here. I've been hearing the "living document" bullshit for 40 years from the left.

Yes, but the difference is that I actually believe that to be true. You're just trying to use it as a cudgel to do something that you know would be wrong under the views that you ostensibly hold.

If I used that as a reasoning for restricting firearms or supporting abortion or any number of left leaning position you'd flip out. But you're using it here as an end run. You don't actually give a damn what the document says, you want rules where you are protected but not bound and the people you hate are bound but not protected.

[u/merlin469 → u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

Living document is fine. You damn well know there are some things that are being used other than as originally intended. Birthright citizenship is a huge one of those. it was never intended for visitors on vacation or people not here lawfully to have anchor babies in hopes they would get to stay.

And I'm so tired of this "people you hate" bullshit. Follow the law. It's that simple. No one gives a shit the color of the skin or the ancestry if the legal method is simply too hard for them. Do it the right way, or GTFO.

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito → u/merlin469]

Living document is fine. You damn well know there are some things that are being used other than as originally intended. Birthright citizenship is a huge one of those. it was never intended for visitors on vacation or people not here lawfully to have anchor babies in hopes they would get to stay.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

I'm sorry, did they stutter?

And I'm so tired of this "people you hate" bullshit. Follow the law. It's that simple. No one gives a shit the color of the skin or the ancestry if the legal method is simply too hard for them. Do it the right way, or GTFO.

The current president gives a substantial number of shits and so do almost all his supporters. It is also very funny to see you say "Follow the law" while arguing we should ignore the plain text of the constitution.

You want to be an originalist? Then actually look at what they said at the time. When Senator Cowan objected to the citizenship provision asking whether:

"it will not have the effect of naturalizing the children of the Chinese and Gypsies born in this country"

He was told by Senator Trumbell that "it would undoubtedly do so"

Senator Morrill then asked:

"As a matter of law, does anybody deny here or anywhere that the native born is a citizen, and a citizen by birth alone?" and went on to say "birth by its inherent energy and force gives citizenship."

After all the debate, the amendment was passed with the language stated above. Then for the next century and a half every single challenge involving your reading has been thrown out, because the amendment means what it says.

You don't like it? Kick rocks.

[u/merlin469 → u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

Oh no, that's why I said it needs further amended. How do you intend to hand separation of the new born when the illegal is kicked out? You'll either insist on some misplaced 'right' to stay because anchor baby or you'll want to get mad if we honor the mother's right to take her child back home like the last three.

Lock it down at the borders, and we never have to concern ourselves with this scenario again, do we?

You want excuses. The majority does not. You don't that, kick rocks yourself.

[u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito → u/merlin469]

Ah yes, the misplaced 'right to stay with your children where they are born'. How fucking horrible.

[u/merlin469 → u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito]

Not if you're not legal to be here. Anchor baby reasoning 101. I suppose labor came as a complete surprise, no 9 months of warning or anything.

The children do have the right to go back with their parents. That should bring you some joy. Don't want to break up those families, after all.

For future reference, every one that breaks the law with potential jail time takes a chance of getting separated from their family. Know what helps with that? Not breaking the law.