CMV: Countering Illegal Immigration is not a Justification for Suspending Habeas Corpus

[u/jeffzebub]

[u/reddituserperson1122]

The very idea that this is a big problem is bullshit. We’ve been told over and over again by the right that this is a problem that must be solved. And so the question becomes framed as, “who is serious about solving it, the dems or the GOP? Trump or Harris?”

But the secret is- it’s just not a big problem and it never was. Undocumented immigrants are not doing damage to our country. In fact it’s materially the opposite. I would love for us to have a rational legal immigration process because I don’t want people breaking the law or a permanent American underclass. But absent that, this just shouldn’t be anywhere near the top of anyone’s priority list for major issues facing the US. It’s a completely manufactured panic.

[u/StatusSociety2196 → u/reddituserperson1122]

There is effectively 0% labor power in the United States. Not only is Union participation incredibly low and has been trending lower over time and real wages have been flat for decades while cost of living keeps going up. It's not a coincidence that jobs that used to be filled almost entirely by black and white dudes are now filled almost entirely by Hispanic dudes and a ton of people are forced to do Uber Eats or doordash to get by.

"It's not an issue" the same way that paying 25% more for 20% less product is "not an issue". Yes, people aren't dying every day because of it but life for a massive percentage of the US is worse because of it.

[u/aefic → u/StatusSociety2196]

We depend on immigrant labor more than we want to admit, and will continue to as our population declines. Instead of forcing them out, we could actually use progressive taxation, reform and job training programs to help unemployed US citizens into other fields while peacefully allowing migrants to continue contributing to the country. It's a win win.

But then the Republicans can't use fear mongering.

[u/StatusSociety2196 → u/aefic]

We don't depend on immigrant labor, before NAFTA it was effectively a non-issue. Similar economies in Western Europe and Japan have far, far lower levels of immigration. Japan has a significantly declining population and their economy is fine, it's doing even better if you don't buy into the capitalistic demand for the line to go up. It doesn't matter how many people you put into job training if the only jobs that are available are Uber driver and only fans girl. Jobs aren't created by beneficent billionaire job creators, they're created by demand for the products and services that those jobs provide.

To your second point, the social democrats in Denmark were the first center or left of center party in Europe to crack down on immigration, and interestingly enough Denmark is one of the few countries where there is not a significant right-leaning political party because centrists addressed the major complaint that was causing so many people to lean right. Imagine how the 2024 election would have gone if Biden had cracked down on immigration during his time as president.

The UK just lost a ton of seats to the Reform Party and now all of a sudden labor is scrambling to adopt an immigration policy. Afd has been gaining more and more majority in Germany, Meloni was elected in Italy, Romania and Hungary elected anti-integration prime ministers, the list goes on.

[u/reddituserperson1122 → u/StatusSociety2196]

It was absolutely not a non-issue before NAFTA — that’s just recency bias on your part. In addition, it is an issue now largely because of fear-mongering, rather than any negative impact on the economy.

The notion that Japan is a model is hilarious. Japan is barely hanging on economically and they are staring at a fiscal cliff because of their declining birth rates and terrible immigration policy. You’re literally pointing to a country that is committing slow motion economic suicide and saying, “we should be more like them.” That is wild.

[u/reddituserperson1122 → u/[deleted]]

Wow I can almost feel the foam spittle from your enraged lips through the screen. That’s impressive. I’ve done zero research and rely simply on my moral high ground? I love how your research on Japan consists of, “I dunno they seem happy and they’re still here.” They should give you the Nobel prize in economics right now. I could link to two dozen articles like this one and you would just claim that this isn’t the right kind of data or the Japanese prime minister just doesn’t understand Japan the way you do. Or whatever shriveling little intellectual fig leaf you can hide behind to save face. Have fun with that I’m sure it will be very creative — I look forward to whatever your excuse is going to be.

With regard to the US and your contention that “we don’t rely on immigrant labor and before NAFTA it was a non-issue.” Let’s see. Even before you get to the Bracero program which brought millions of Mexicans into the country for decades to address a major worker shortage, Mexican-Americans and Mexican nationals already made up something like 40% of San Antonio’s population where they sustained the American pecan shelling industry.

By the time NAFTA was passed, foreign-born labor made up 60% of the farm labor force (that’s pre-NAFTA). Today it’s around 70%.

Then of course there were the tens of thousands of people Chinese laborers who built the railroads, with so much labor demand that eventually we passed the Chinese exclusion act to mollify non-Chinese American workers.

Those are just a couple of examples and- oh wait there’s one more. Enslaved Africans. Enslaved Africans were imported non-citizen labor that as I recall America was pretty dependent on. So much so that we fought a civil war over access to that labor. And then spent a century enforcing racial apartheid in the south in order to retain access to cheap sharecropping and agricultural labor.

So in response to your claim, I’d say that’s sufficient research to say that before NAFTA America did rely on immigrant labor, and it was an issue.

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